Hell and suicide?

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by shawndell

I heard a story yesterday.This lady I know told me that she had a son in law that shot and killed himself a few years ago,she told me his story in tears.This boy was one of three children,his mom died on the couch when the kids were 4,3 and 2 years old and they were in the house for 4 days before the family found thier mother dead,and this boy was the 4 year old and he had been trying to take care of the other two children but how can a 4 year old do very well at that?Their father had already died a couple of years before.All three kids ended up in a orphanedge.When they were in the orphanedge they were abused by beatings,starving and molesting for all of thier child hood.When this boy was 9 years old his sister that was 8 was tied to a tree in front of him so that he could watch his sister be tortered in ways I wont mention because it was to awful.When he grew up he married my friends daughter,but the first time my friend met him he had walked 20 miles from his home in a thunder strom and she found him on her door step with blood all over his shirt,he was 18 years old and was living with his uncle who put small nicks in his chest with a knife,so my friend allowed him to stay with her.This young man never had a bad thing to say to any one and he never asked for anything from any one.EXAMPLE he was working and would not ask for a ride to work even though it was 12 miles to his job,and when she did take him he would waight 3 to 4 hours sometimes with out her rememering to pick him up,he would just thank her for the ride.She says she would buy hundreds of dollars on her kids for christmas and gaught him a 15 dollar electric razer and he was the only one to thank her and most people who looked into his eyes would call them sad or say he was born dead.The sparkle in his eyes was not there.When he and his wife would argue he could never say anything bad about her.His sister as of right now is in prison.Whenever his sister gets out of prison she does something to go back because she has been institutionalized for to long.That young man never heard about God and all his life from the beginning has been nothing but hell on earth.He never had a chance.Isnt there room in Gods heart for some one like him?P.S. WHAT ABOUT HIS SISTER?????

These are things that only God can sort through. I know many people who have sufferred abuse which has led to lifestyles that we would not consider appropriate...but it is my thinking/feeling that God will hold the abusers accountable.

This is so sad, but there are many of these same stories right here among those we know and love.

God is holy, just, and righteous. I trust Him to make things right in the end.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Mercy]

Originally Posted by Dedicated Mind

another definition of everlasting is "age-long". people in hell will suffer an age-long punishment. when the age-long punishment is over, people in hell will be redeemed. imo

So I have a question then: If everlasting is age long, and the Word says God is from everlasting to everlasting....then one day God will end too?

(PS 90:2)

I am trying to understand your reasoning...thats all.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Esther

Thanks for responding, I guess my next question would be what does everlasting mean to you?

"of the next age" "aionion" "the life of the age to come" "the punishment of the age to come"

Related to punishment it does not mean without end. Pertaining to the life that comes from God, it is without end for only one reason it is the life of
God. Punishment by it's very nature serves a purpose and then ceases, unless you believe God to be punitive in His treatment of those created in His own image.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Mercy

So I have a question then: If everlasting is age long, and the Word says God is from everlasting to everlasting....then one day God will end too?

(PS 90:2)

I am trying to understand your reasoning...thats all.

Of course not, when you inject God as the subject, it becomes without end.

But everlasting does not of itself mean without end, at least not as it is used throughout the OT and NT. The Greek and Hebrew words for everlasting and eternal are the subject of much study, because they are used in what is seeming contradictory ways in the scriptures.

[shawndell]

Originally Posted by crakjak

I don't believe it in the traditional sense of endless conscious torment. After it has served its purpose of purging, correcting, and the setting of things right it will cease.

Thanks for asking.

Some one once taught that eternity is like a steel ball the size of the earth,and every thousand years a sparrow come to brush his wing on this steel ball.By the time that this steel ball wares down to nothing that is not even the beginning of eternity.

[shawndell]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

So are you convinced that this guy, in his entire life on earth, never ONCE was invited to a church, some church that at the bare minimum taught that Jesus is Lord, never ONCE had a thought about letting Jesus into His life, never once heard the song, "Amazing Grace" and never ONCE thought about how that song could possibly minister to his broken life?


As sad as this story reads, if he lived in America, he had a chance for salvation.

God is just, whether this sould ends up in Heaven or hell. I just have a hard time believing that this guy NEVER had a chance.

Though his circumstances were beyond unfortunate, I am prone to believe that he had a chance, probably more than one-- but spurned the opportunities, choosing to carry his own burdens.


As for the sister and anyone else, as long as they are still living, there is still a chance for salvation.

I dont know if he was ever told about Jesus but I wonder if he wasnt so damaged that he wasnt capeble of excepting Jesus if he was told.I believe he wasnt told because God is the great healer and would have healed him enough to except the way,truth ,and life.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by shawndell

Some one once taught that eternity is like a steel ball the size of the earth,and every thousand years a sparrow come to brush his wing on this steel ball.By the time that this steel ball wares down to nothing that is not even the beginning of eternity.

I call that creative manipulation and fear! If you were raised in a traditional "hellfire" culture you have heard that definition of eternity. It was not enough to try scare the hell out of folks with intense heat and fire, the length of time and the hopelessness of it had to be dramatized.

Is God so weak and powerless to accomplish His purpose of redeeming mankind that He had to resort to such evil and wicked tactics? I have found better and more Godly plans for man in the scriptures, but it requires shedding the doctrines of men, the dark ages and the apostate church.

[shawndell]

Originally Posted by crakjak

If hell were to be what tradition defines, your statement above is NO comfort at all. What 2000 degrees instead of 3000? One eternity rather than two??

I know by the word that there is fire in hell,but I wonder if maybe some will be eaten by demons or tore apart or tortered over and over again.The fear will be stronger than being surounded by a bunch of hungry sharks and every thing we take for granted likefood,water breathing air,and if you were a drug addict maybe your craving for those drugs will still upon them,and then there is the lonelyness of family and friends and any fellowship that we take for granted,and worst of all is being seperated from GOD and knowing that God is far from you.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

So are you convinced that this guy, in his entire life on earth, never ONCE was invited to a church, some church that at the bare minimum taught that Jesus is Lord, never ONCE had a thought about letting Jesus into His life, never once heard the song, "Amazing Grace" and never ONCE thought about how that song could possibly minister to his broken life?


As sad as this story reads, if he lived in America, he had a chance for salvation.

God is just, whether this sould ends up in Heaven or hell. I just have a hard time believing that this guy NEVER had a chance.

Though his circumstances were beyond unfortunate, I am prone to believe that he had a chance, probably more than one-- but spurned the opportunities, choosing to carry his own burdens.


As for the sister and anyone else, as long as they are still living, there is still a chance for salvation.

JD,

Maybe, you assume that because he may have heard a gospel message at sometime in his life that he had a reasonable and responsible opportunity to respond to the gospel.

I would suggest that due to his experience he more than likely would not have been able to comprehend the Good News. His father and mother died early in his life, to an infant that can be the same as abandonment. Those responsible for his wellbeing and care then abused him. What kind of context is this for someone to understand that there is a unseen benevolent father that loves him?

It is not possible that ALL humans have a fair opportunity to receive the gospel in this life. I will go so far to say that is not God's plan that all will hear and understand the gospel in this life. Therefore, it is clear that He does not stop reaching for "the lost sheep" when this life ends. Why would God create the billions of humans since creation and then abandon the greatest portion of them? If it was that we have hope in this life only, God would have established a better context for ALL to hear and to receive.

I would suggest reading "Hope Beyond Hell" "The righteousness of God's judgment" by Gerry Beauchemin. You can read it online.

http://www.tentmaker.org/books/hope_beyond_hell.pdf

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by shawndell

I know by the word that there is fire in hell,but I wonder if maybe some will be eaten by demons or tore apart or tortered over and over again.The fear will be stronger than being surounded by a bunch of hungry sharks and every thing we take for granted likefood,water breathing air,and if you were a drug addict maybe your craving for those drugs will still upon them,and then there is the lonelyness of family and friends and any fellowship that we take for granted,and worst of all is being seperated from GOD and knowing that God is far from you.

Sorry, (no, I am not sorry) but I can't find the God that you describe in this post in the scripture. The monster that would create such a place of necessity would have to be Satan, or at least his deceptive lies. Sounds like a horror movie, created by some carnal and depraved Hollywood writer.

Certainly not the Creator, the Heavenly Father, the Judge that will "do right".

The scripture says that our God is a "refining fire", His fires are for one purpose, and that is to refine, to purge, to prune, to correct and to set things right.