Something I thought I would never see............

[Theophil]

Originally Posted by Margies3

On Facebook, I am "friends" with a large UPC church in our area.. I was just reading what different people had posted this evening and almost fell off of my chair when I saw that this was what they said...

‎"I think we've made this relationship with God not about a relationship, but about meeting requirements."

I TOTALLY agree! And am thrilled beyond measure to see them say it. But this is not something I would have expected to see even 2 or 3 years ago. Don't get me wrong. I love this church and think the world of the the pastor.

Maybe I was stunned because I talked with someone else today who goes to a UPC church where the pastor recently said from the pulpit that they are not holding a hard line on standards anymore. (don't ask me who or where, because I will not say). Again, I am not upset about that. Just very, very surprised! Things have changed alot in the last 20 years, haven't they! (for the better, if you ask me )

Wonderful.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by CC1

Frogperson, you are correct that I did not mean ill by suggesting that this person, and many others, find the legalism of old time Pentecost comforting and easier than personally implementing Christian principles in their lives.

I do stand by the statement though and believe it 100%. Not an insult just something I consider a fact from almost 52 years of being in or around the UPC.

Most UPC folks I know can't fathom the concept of a preacher teaching principles in scripture and then allowing room for saints in their own study, prayer, and seeking God to apply them to their lives. They want that laundry list everybody has to line up with. Yes I think that is a comfort and easier than the way I described.

You cannot seperate the psychology of the human mind from the approaches different religious systems take. Old time Pentecost pounds extra biblical legalism into peoples heads then if they feel quilty about violating one of the rules that guilt is called conviction. I do believe in conviction but in old time Pentecost I believe the vast amount of the time what is called conviction is instead guilt from psychological conditioning.

CC! This is so incredibly insightful...thank you so much for contributing this.

[Apprehended]

A weariness has set in that is putting the saints of God fast asleep. It is the sleep of death. The saints of God in the USA are overcharged with the cares of life that going on some times seems more than they can endure, especially when their church offers little of the bread that came down from heaven to replenish their strength and vitality. So much of the joy of salvation is gone replaced by a religious enthusiasm which grows old with routine.

Gone are the days when saints could hardly bear to be out of church even for one night. I saw the time when the glory of God was so brightly moving, rejoicing the people in the blessed purity of unfeigned holiness and presence of God that it was hard to dismiss a service...often saints lingered all night in the after-glow of His majestic presence, beholding the face of their heavenly lover.

I saw the time when just simply walking into the church, diseases disappeared, sick recovered and those bound in wheel chairs simply got up and walked. The power of God was present to heal...to save and deliver. The love lights of God and for each other shone as a bright as the blinding light of high noon.

Religiosity has replaced that glory. No doubt this pastor has fought the battle for so long that he is now weary and beyond going on. He, like so many of his saints would just simply rather stay home and relax instead of enduring the weariness of yet another non-productive church service.

Saints, hold on. There is about to be a heavenly burst of the glory of God to hit the earth. You will be glad that you did not give up. Something beyond what you can possibly imagine is just ahead.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

A weariness has set in that is putting the saints of God fast asleep. It is the sleep of death. The saints of God in the USA are overcharged with the cares of life that going on some times seems more than they can endure, especially when their church offers little of the bread that came down from heaven to replenish their strength and vitality. So much of the joy of salvation is gone replaced by a religious enthusiasm which grows old with routine.

Gone are the days when saints could hardly bear to be out of church even for one night. I saw the time when the glory of God was so brightly moving, rejoicing the people in the blessed purity of unfeigned holiness and presence of God that it was hard to dismiss a service...often saints lingered all night in the after-glow of His majestic presence, beholding the face of their heavenly lover.

I saw the time when just simply walking into the church, diseases disappeared, sick recovered and those bound in wheel chairs simply got up and walked. The power of God was present to heal...to save and deliver. The love lights of God and for each other shone as a bright as the blinding light of high noon.

Religiosity has replaced that glory. No doubt this pastor has fought the battle for so long that he is now weary and beyond going on. He, like so many of his saints would just simply rather stay home and relax instead of enduring the weariness of yet another non-productive church service.

Saints, hold on. There is about to be a heavenly burst of the glory of God to hit the earth. You will be glad that you did not give up. Something beyond what you can possibly imagine is just ahead.

I've been waiting, longing and praying for a move of God like what we read about in the NT but what makes YOU so sure it is soon to come?

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I've been waiting, longing and praying for a move of God like what we read about in the NT but what makes YOU so sure it is soon to come?

I saw it in 1978. I might have the time to tell the whole story later. Of certainty, that day is approaching when the black clouds of evil covering the earth that hides the face of heaven will be rolled away as a scroll to reveal the greatest sunburst of God's electrifying power and glory. They that prepare themselves now will be used of God in a mighty way in that day. Meanwhile, don't be discouraged. Remain faithful. You will be glad that you did. Meanwhile: "Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness..."

[Aquila]

God doesn't want you to be a better Christian or a better Apostolic. God doesn't want you to be a better you. God doesn't want you following standards and traditions like they make Him pleased with you.

God desires that you be conformed into the image of the Lord Jesus Christ. That's right, that Christ be formed in you. God desires that you partake in the divine nature through living in a oneness with Christ that's so deep and intimate you feel Jesus' heart beating in your chest, feel impressed by Christ's thoughts, find yourself speaking Christ's words. The Father desires that you become... a vessel of Jesus Christ. Not so that you might do things FOR God... but so that you can do things IN Christ by virtue of you being in Christ... and Christ being in you. When SELF dies and only Jesus lives in you.... you will discover a victory and power like you've never known. Because Jesus doesn't fail. His prayers are always answered. Jesus never fails to heal the sick. When it's Christ working IN YOU and not YOU WORKING FOR CHRIST... then we'll see the revival we've always dreamed of.

[Apprehended]

We should be reminded that passivity has never won a crown.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

I saw it in 1978. I might have the time to tell the whole story later. Of certainty, that day is approaching when the black clouds of evil covering the earth that hides the face of heaven will be rolled away as a scroll to reveal the greatest sunburst of God's electrifying power and glory. They that prepare themselves now will be used of God in a mighty way in that day. Meanwhile, don't be discouraged. Remain faithful. You will be glad that you did. Meanwhile: "Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness..."

I'd LOVE to read the whole story!

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

I saw it in 1978. I might have the time to tell the whole story later. Of certainty, that day is approaching when the black clouds of evil covering the earth that hides the face of heaven will be rolled away as a scroll to reveal the greatest sunburst of God's electrifying power and glory. They that prepare themselves now will be used of God in a mighty way in that day. Meanwhile, don't be discouraged. Remain faithful. You will be glad that you did. Meanwhile: "Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness..."

1978... Did you witness this after returning from the theater where you just saw the late showing of Grease?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

I've been waiting, longing and praying for a move of God like what we read about in the NT but what makes YOU so sure it is soon to come?

I had a dream a long time ago and I know it was from God. I was in a clinic and there was a woman with a sick child - very ill. Chairs lined the waiting room walls with young Hispanic women (don't know what that was about), the chairs stretched around a corner. I sat next to the woman and asked if I could pray for the child. When I began to pray, the Holy Ghost fell and all of the young women began to cry and speak in tongues. In the dream, I understood that somewhere in the lives of these women, they had received the Holy Ghost, but things had transpired in their lives that moved them away from Him. What I felt was that they represented people all over and that one day, when we have a move of God like we want to see, He will restore those that life and circumstance tried to destroy - in a mighty, powerful, outpouring.

I know that I will see this dream come to pass. I don't know when, but I will.