This we all believe, that God will always make a way. Should not the pastor be our example first? Why then do they all fear that without tithes their church will fail? It seems to me that this spirit is what prevails in all the arguments for tithes; that without tithes the churches will fail, the bills will not be paid. It is this spirit to me that seems to run so contrary to faith, this spirit of doubt and fear. For this reason, I find tithing to be against faith. Let us trust in God. If that is truly the motto you preach, search yourself and I think you'll be surprised to find fear and doubt at the heart of your preaching tithes.
Indeed.
This discussion is not about withholding giving as so many try to make it out to be.
It is about God's people being free from undue and unbiblical laws put upon them and it is about a NT relationship with God and our money that teaches us to give outside a law and a threat of hell.
It is about people being taught and led to a place of personal decision in their finances that comes from having the spirit and nature of a loving and giving God within them that leads them to give as they feel compelled and finding God's will in that giving.
It is about giving freely... because God loves those that do so.
Really? You would rather us not come to your church if we don't pay a tithe? You'd rather we go to hell?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pastorrick1959
sure gonna be hard to ever have a church with no support aint it?
Nobody said anything about not supporting a church. We are simply talking about whether the tithe is a command upon the NT saint. People can still give outside of a commandment. As a matter of fact... giving out of ones heart and not out of necessity or command sounds might NT to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pastorrick1959
it is scriptural to pay tithes
Oh... well. I had no idea you would be presenting so much hard evidence... i digress. LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by pastorrick1959
and it works very well for me . at one point in my life i didnt pay 10%my thinking was the disciples paid as they were blessed so when i made good i pd good and when i didnt do well being self employed , i gave little to nothing ..things went horibly wrong in about a month,in every aspect of my life .. i said heck i gonna pay 10% and se what happens in 2 weeks everything i mean everything turned around and i had one of the best paying weeks i ever had in my life ,just unlucky i dont think so //. blessed or cursed ,, 10% works i am living proof.
Anyone it works well for should walk in that. That is what we are saying. We aren't saying don't give. We aren't saying don't give a tenth. We are saying... if you teach that the tithe is a command upon the NT saint you are doing so outside the edict of the word of God. You are riding on old worn out twistings of scripture that don't stand up to muster.
It shows a lack of study... a lack of desire to know anything beyond what you've been told... a lack of faith in God and His people to give outside of a command.
I gave a tithe on a car that I had been given once. I had to borrow the money to give it... but the pastor said I needed to so I did.
I lost my job and entered into financial ruin that took nearly a decade to recover from. So... since things going well for you is proof that the tithe works... I guess I am proof it doesn't work. Or... stuff is just stuff... ya think?
You know...in that OT, the tithe never resulted in the priesthood having too much goods. Yet, when the commandment wasn't pressed and instead Moses told the people to give of their own accord IF they wanted to have a tabernacle they gave so much stuff Moses had to tell them to stop giving.
I wonder why no one is in a hurry to try that method today?
I was wanting to elaborate on my earlier post a bit... While there have been many good posts about tithes under the older testament, even without understanding all these things we can come to the realization that tithing ought not be preached. It is this type of argument I hope to convey. That true nature of the teaching of tithing can be found in the arguments listed for its support. So, lets take a moment and reflect on all the ones listed.
1. Those who do not tithe are under a curse from God.
This one is from the bible. It is probably the most quoted reference is support of tithes. Now without getting into whether the old testament scripture this is based from applies to Christians, I would like to examine this assertion. Essentially it is a claim, that if you tithe you will not be cursed and thus will be better off financially than you were before. I think any form of giving to God whether tithing or not ought to be about expecting nothing in return, or at the very least not expecting to get back money for money. If there ought to be any kind of reward to giving its in knowing that giving is a reward unto itself. It's the simple act of doing something that's not for ourselves which allows us to be confident and happy that we did something good.
2. Tithes are needed to finance our churches.
Well, it is true the churches need money to operate. Should that money come from tithes? Maybe, but it seems far more "godly or god-life" if a church is founded upon the kind of giving that doesn't expect return. (And I have never heard tithes preached without some mention of getting financially blessed in return) Furthermore, when it's insisted that a church will fail without tithes, where is faith?
3. Those who are against tithing don't even give 10%.
The only thing this statement is designed to do is take anyone out of the debate that doesn't pay 10%. It is designed on the premise that those who give at least 10% are the only ones who are doing their part to support the church.
In conclusion, The only defenses of teaching tithing all have things that don't sit well with me or that seem rather inferior to just giving. The way tithing is taught does not reflect the true nature of giving, it also emphasizes a lack of faith that a church will fail without tithes. Also, it is sooo obvious that true giving is far godlier than tithing. So I think, give expecting no return. What do you all think?
Indeed. Give. Give freely. Give without thought of return. Exceed a tenth if one is so led. Do all of these things and show forth the spirit of our Master & King.
That is what I love to do and love to live.
Personally I find that the joy of giving can be quite addicting. I love to give. It is a wonderful experience to be a tool for God.
As my wife often says... don't take away my blessing by making it a law unto me. When my free giving becomes a law then there is no free giving until I have exceeded the law.
Question, Pastor Rick, just curious: before you baptize new believers, do you disclose to them all the requirements they must agree to? Do they know they are giving up at least 10% of their income for the rest of their lives?
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
when the man said the fact he gave tithes twice in the week he didnt get fussed at for doing it even tho his motives may not have been what they needed to be. i am all for truth studying has been a passion for yrs as i have ben preaching since 1981.you seem to want to challenge my faith lol , your petty statements cant shake what i am , i have ttraveled all over preaching and helping folks and i always will .. i never ask for a dime as someone referred that i am after money without directly saying it ..i dont even take the tithes from our church ,just a little offering here and there not much at all. not because i dont fel like its not right for me too. but i am succesful in business and our church needs a new church we have filled this one up.
just for my information why do yall feel the old test tithes are done away with in the new where is that scripture found? and i agree as well that tithing should be a joyous thing not a forced issue . if i love the lord and his work i should gladly do all i can to help my church and my people and i do and will . i pray for your souls as i feel they r in danger .. the little pun intended remarks yall give are evidence that there is room for maturity ..lord bless you i am done with this topic. anyother conversation with me can be done atv 931 224 7005
Question, Pastor Rick, just curious: before you baptize new believers, do you disclose to them all the requirements they must agree to? Do they know they are giving up at least 10% of their income for the rest of their lives?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pastorrick1959
when the man said the fact he gave tithes twice in the week he didnt get fussed at for doing it even tho his motives may not have been what they needed to be. i am all for truth studying has been a passion for yrs as i have ben preaching since 1981.you seem to want to challenge my faith lol , your petty statements cant shake what i am , i have ttraveled all over preaching and helping folks and i always will .. i never ask for a dime as someone referred that i am after money without directly saying it ..i dont even take the tithes from our church ,just a little offering here and there not much at all. not because i dont fel like its not right for me too. but i am succesful in business and our church needs a new church we have filled this one up.
just for my information why do yall feel the old test tithes are done away with in the new where is that scripture found? and i agree as well that tithing should be a joyous thing not a forced issue . if i love the lord and his work i should gladly do all i can to help my church and my people and i do and will . i pray for your souls as i feel they r in danger .. the little pun intended remarks yall give are evidence that there is room for maturity ..lord bless you i am done with this topic. anyother conversation with me can be done atv 931 224 7005
Is that a Yes or a No?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Hybrid Mode
