Tulsa Report Day 2

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Sacerdotal

Sounds like some are upset they didn't get a position offered to them.

LOL....I doubt that.

[RevBuddy]

Now we have the WPF Apologists with us always...just like the poor...

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

Now we have the WPF Apologists with us always...just like the poor...

We are such a gullible bunch and we will always accept style over substance. We don't want to have to actually think about things. We just want to hear the "right" noises and see the "right" picture flash before our eyes and we're lulled back to sleep.

It's really no wonder that the Jesus Name Apostolic movement is dying out in North America. We do the same thing every time and get the same result and turn over and go back to sleep. The last thing we need to hear is that all of our infighting and competitive holiness has had a negative impact on ourselves.

"We're not using the UPCI minister's mailing list to start a new organization..." But before the invitations even go out there's already a huge bureaucracy in place.

"Oh well... we just didn't think we were starting a new org at the time we "borrowed" the list. We changed our minds later so we didn't really deceive anyone but ourselves. And we do that all the time anyhow, so it's not a bad thing!"

"We have a "great spirit! We had to lie to our brethren, violate the Manual and Articles of Faith that we swore we'd uphold, but no big deal. God's always gonna be with us... as long as we keep making the right noises and dress up in the right uniform. There's nothing wrong with us!"

And the movement continues to die a slow and painful death.

[BroGibs]

God help us!

[BroGibs]

Brothers, we stand in UNITY or you cut your ties with the UPCI and go your own way!! we will never be successful as a group divided!!!!

[MikeinAR]

BroGibs brings up what seems to be the point of most pertinence to me. Where does this go from here? To just an outside observer like myself the signals from the Tulsa meeting are mixed and double minded at best. At the one hand, it seems the Tulsa-nites aren't really prepared to make the leap and disassociate themselves with the UPCI, but are inclined to offer local certifications to minister within the WPF.

Surely they don't intend to operate as the WPF, all the while trying to operate within the UPCI as well. Rational men would agree there's no need for the WPF if they intend on remaining in the UPCI.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by MikeinAR

BroGibs brings up what seems to be the point of most pertinence to me. Where does this go from here? To just an outside observer like myself the signals from the Tulsa meeting are mixed and double minded at best. At the one hand, it seems the Tulsa-nites aren't really prepared to make the leap and disassociate themselves with the UPCI, but are inclined to offer local certifications to minister within the WPF.

Surely they don't intend to operate as the WPF, all the while trying to operate within the UPCI as well. Rational men would agree there's no need for the WPF if they intend on remaining in the UPCI.

I think the organizers and a significant number of those attending the first Tulsa meeting are not only prepared but are eager to make the leap to disassociate themselves from the UPC.

These are folks who by the very nature of their conservative beliefs have a "holier than thou" perspective. Their disdain for what they perceive as "liberalness" in the UPC has been growing for years.

They discovered they did not have the number of votes to gain power to stop all the things that bother them like the use of video, lighting, smoke, music that is not Southern Gospel, etc.

Their only alternative was to do their own thing and that they have done. I am sure many from pure motives and some from deep seated resentment over having come close but never having attained position and power in the UPC.

[NW Pastor]

Originally Posted by CC1

I think the organizers and a significant number of those attending the first Tulsa meeting are not only prepared but are eager to make the leap to disassociate themselves from the UPC.

These are folks who by the very nature of their conservative beliefs have a "holier than thou" perspective. Their disdain for what they perceive as "liberalness in the UPC has been growing for years.

They discovered they did not have the number of votes to gain power to stop all the things that bother them like the use of video, lighting, smoke, music that is not Southern Gospel, etc.

Their only alternative was to do their own thing and that they have done. I am sure many from pure motives and some from deep seated resentment over having come close but never having attained position and power in the UPC.

There are deep differences that exist in some of the above mentioned areas. These are some potential future battlegrounds for the newly formed WPF. You might be suprised by how "liberal" some are in these areas. They might make some "liberals" in other areas scream "comprimise"!

[Sister Alvear]

Since I belong to neither and have friends in both I pray for all involved.

[Parkbench]

Come summer time, realization that much of the Tusla sound was of brass and tinkling cymbals; will create a longing in the hearts of some who went there to return to a good old UPC Camp meeting.

Many a church will then find their old pastor showing forth a more repentant, understanding, humble and compasssionate heart............after he sees the error of Tulsa.