Are Independent Churches Operating in Rebellion?

[ManOfWord]

Well, we're independent for a couple of reasons. #1 being that we can have more of an influence on our community being independent than we can in a denomination. #2 I have not found a group that justifies me paying the monthly dues!

[Withdrawn]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

#1 being that we can have more of an influence on our community being independent than we can in a denomination.

Hey, Bro, would you please elaborate on this for me? I'm not rebuking or refuting, I'm sincerely curious how you support that statement. I've heard that it's harder to get tax-exempt status without an affiliation and even harder to get a bank loan should we ever decide we should purchase a building.

My brother-in-law and I are talking and praying about this as an option. Seems there's another pastor in our area bad-mouthing us because we have, evidently, stolen some of "his people." While we have never specifically asked any of them to come with us, we have not told them they are not welcome either. Some of the politicians in our district are stirring up trouble and it's making it difficult to even attend fellowship meetings. He's paying monthly dues to basically receive no support from the presbytery.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by jaamez

Hey, Bro, would you please elaborate on this for me? I'm not rebuking or refuting, I'm sincerely curious how you support that statement. I've heard that it's harder to get tax-exempt status without an affiliation and even harder to get a bank loan should we ever decide we should purchase a building.

My brother-in-law and I are talking and praying about this as an option. Seems there's another pastor in our area bad-mouthing us because we have, evidently, stolen some of "his people." While we have never specifically asked any of them to come with us, we have not told them they are not welcome either. Some of the politicians in our district are stirring up trouble and it's making it difficult to even attend fellowship meetings. He's paying monthly dues to basically receive no support from the presbytery.

Tax exempt is not a problem. You pretty much have it from day one, as long as it is a "normal" church situation but you still need to file with the IRS....usually just a formality.

Regarding bank loans, we've had no problem whatsoever. We've just demonstrated ability to pay. We just borrowed $150K a couple of years ago to do some things around here and hire a youth pastor. Our equity was there and we provided the bank with a business plan and it was no problem.

Regarding ordinations: Even though we are independent, in the State's eyes, we are our own "denominational" ordaining body. I can ordain anyone and it is just like any other denomination.

Regarding accountability: There is always the danger of abuse and that exists whether in a denomination or not. The key is to have good leaders on board and a good accountability system, which we have. I have a lot of authority, but it comes from trust. We still have things in place like signing a loan or selling that can't be done by be alone. It takes a board decision or maybe a congregational decision, depending on what the situation is.

Impact on our community? Being independent/non-denominational allows me to interact with MANY other churches since they can't pigeon hole us with a denomination. Interaction translates into influence. It also helps me in the political and business community as well. That may not be the case everywhere, but it is for us.

Hope this helps!

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by jaamez

Hey, Bro, would you please elaborate on this for me? I'm not rebuking or refuting, I'm sincerely curious how you support that statement. I've heard that it's harder to get tax-exempt status without an affiliation and even harder to get a bank loan should we ever decide we should purchase a building.
.

that's another issue, should the church register with the government?

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by Charnock

Should every pastor and church be connected to a denomination?

Can there be true oversight without denominational affiliation?

Are independent churches operating in rebellion?

It has been preached for years and independent churches (or the concept) has been condemned, because they refuse to come under any sort of accountable leadership...which you know in the UPC when you refuse to come under leadership you are instantly considered rebellious.

This notion reflected on two large churches in our city one UPC and one independent (Apostolic) that were like the Apostolic version of the Hattfields and McCoys....but not so much anymore as one of the pastors retired.

Every time saints came to the UPC from that church they were coming out of the wilderness and deadness and from darkness into the light, and when they left the UPC to go to the independent, those saints were rebellious and full of bitterness...and oh yea, were unwilling to bow to leadership.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

It has been preached for years and independent churches (or the concept) has been condemned, because they refuse to come under any sort of accountable leadership...which you know in the UPC when you refuse to come under leadership you are instantly considered rebellious.

This notion reflected on two large churches in our city one UPC and one independent (Apostolic) that were like the Apostolic version of the Hattfields and McCoys....but not so much anymore as one of the pastors retired.

Every time saints came to the UPC from that church they were coming out of the wilderness and deadness and from darkness into the light, and when they left the UPC to go to the independent, those saints were rebellious and full of bitterness...and oh yea, were unwilling to bow to leadership.

Yeah, it's like there's not enough sinners to go around!

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Yeah, it's like there's not enough sinners to go around!

You got that right. I find it so hilarious when the church says they want to, "Reach this city for Jesus" yet they knock pretty much every other UPC church into oblivion and people are driving almost an hour to get to THE church.

yea...lots of sinners...in other UPC churches across town to be sure. Talk about low hanging fruits...I mean fruit.

[TalkLady]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

It has been preached for years and independent churches (or the concept) has been condemned, because they refuse to come under any sort of accountable leadership...which you know in the UPC when you refuse to come under leadership you are instantly considered rebellious.

This notion reflected on two large churches in our city one UPC and one independent (Apostolic) that were like the Apostolic version of the Hattfields and McCoys....but not so much anymore as one of the pastors retired.

Every time saints came to the UPC from that church they were coming out of the wilderness and deadness and from darkness into the light, and when they left the UPC to go to the independent, those saints were rebellious and full of bitterness...and oh yea, were unwilling to bow to leadership.

..........Coming from an Independent background, we heard it in the exact opposite manner. It's all a matter of perspective and BACKGROUND!

[Carpenter]

Originally Posted by TalkLady

..........Coming from an Independent background, we heard it in the exact opposite manner. It's all a matter of perspective and BACKGROUND!

Well being on the UPC side, we were considered ring wearin, floozy loosy goosy wearers of red, sex on the platform, exposed ankles and armpits and whatever else...

[MamaHen]

One could also skip the "tax-exempt" status, and keep their freedom of speech & freedom of religion, and not get fitted with a governmental muzzle.

One could also not get a bank loan....I was always taught debt was a bad thing....

If God wants something to happen, He will make it so.

Just my 2 cents :-)