Tithing…Is it a command?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

If your tithe is to your pastor, then that is not right. But, if you give it as unto the Lord, that is a different story. Is not God worthy of the tithe? A straightforward question to the anti-tithers. Is God not worth the tenth that you hold back and use for yourself? Is your love for Him enough to give the tenth? You all seem to have a serious problem, actually two. One is with authority, because I keep hearing is a downgrade of pastors. Another is in how much your love is. I am trying not to be hard, but let me share something with you all.

First when we give to the poor that is the same as giving to the Lord (Prov 19:17). When we help someone to buy groceries for their household, pay their electric bill, and the like we are honoring God (1 John 3:17) and when we do "unto the least of these" we do unto the Lord himself (Matt 25:40). To say nothing of giving to Christian ministries such as Voice of the Martyrs, World Vision, Samaritans Purse, etc. The same could be said about giving to missionaries. Giving to GOD does not have to go through a pastor or a local church.

God didn't command us to build expensive buildings, to fill them up with expensive sound equipment and outrageous utility bills. He didn't callus to turn the church into a corporation. I'm not against buildings, equipment, or air conditioning, but if we can't afford to support them with the generous freewill gifts of the congregation, then we don't need them.

As for your nonsensical question "Is God not worthy of the tithe?" I would ask you is God only worthy of the tithe (10%)? Is He not worthy of 20%? 50%? 100%? So if our giving to God is only what we think He is worth why do you have such a low view of the Almighty? Your arguments are simply emotional based and classic poor OP logic.

As for your assertion about problems with pastoral authority, please take into consideration I am a pastor.

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

My pastor receives no salary from the church.

Neither do I. I work a secular job. I have a nice home, a nice vehicle, am blessed and able to take nice vacations. I have never received a cent from the church. I am healthy, I have a good job, why burden the church?

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

Now, I am gonna be as honest here as possible, but I really think some of you have had some bad pastors and this has degraded you spiritually.

This is rich. Classic OP blame the "victim". There's always a "somebodies done somebody wrong" theory. What if, just perhaps by chance, people actually came to their conclusions by........reading the scripture? And regardless of whether or not anyone had a bad experience or not with tithing it has no bearing on whether or not the scriptures teach believers to tithe.

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

For this, I am sorry and pray you can be released from that chain on your life. It took a divine work of God for this to happen for me. But, you are using the past to downgrade all pastors, all leaders in the church, and this my friends is the root of this problem...

A spirit of rebellion.

I sense a spirit of pride. A spirit that desires to assign motives to those one has never met and condemn them. A desire to Lord it over the people of God.

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

When I pay my tithes, yes, I lay them in the hands of my pastor.

Bravo. Assuming your pastor is not a Levite and you don't attend church at the Temple, I'm not sure where you ever got the idea to do this. It certainly wasn't in the scripture......

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

I give it to the Lord through this. You all seem to have a pastor broke, burdened down, unable to pay any bills, and completely under the submission of the people.

I have a public facebook profile. See if not receiving the tithe has burdened me down and made me unable to pay bills. I find a much clearer teaching in Ephesians 4:28 "Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. " I've found that God blesses me much more when I give, so why do I need to worry about receiving?

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

As for my scriptures, here are two that the Lord just dropped into my spirit...

This is making me uncomfortable......

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

Galatians 3 speaks of how Abraham was blessed before the Law, and how his faith was accounted to him as righteousness. Among his works was the paying of tithes to Melchizedek, the High Priest-King of Salem. Abraham was before the Law, and he gave the tithe. Now, if Abraham, who was righteous by faith and his works according to scripture, and we are made of the Seed of Abraham, Jesus Christ, should we not also tithe unto the Lord?

Before commenting I can't help but see your tremendous misrepresentation of Abraham being justified by faith AND HIS WORKS. His works were an extension of His faith. His works didn't justify Him (Gen 15:6 and Romans 4 make that abundantly clear) and James 2 simply teaches that because Abraham had true/living faith his works bore it out.

So we should ignore the clear teaching of scripture because you've connected the dots for us? Sounds more like Gnosticism.

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

Second, 2Corinthians 9:6-7 admonishes a believer to give abundantly, cheerfully, and willingly. The best principle, a word I have used repeatedly in this discussion, which has been almost complete ignored, is the tithe. God uses the tithe to support the ministry of the Church and advancement of the Kingdom.

Brother I just do not see how you can make such a leap. NO ONE here would argue that a believer should give abundantly (according to what we have, not according to what we do not have), cheerfully, and willingly. However to force "tithe" into 2 Corinthians 9:6-7 is simply your own private interpretation.

Originally Posted by UnTraditional

Please believe me in this. In times past, I have been where you were, most of you anyway. I did not buy into the anti-church building nonsense, but I was staunch anti-tithe. That was until the Spirit of Christ opened this revelation in scripture to me, and planted this seed of faith into my heart. It's there, and none of the anti-tithers will be able to pull it out. why? Because God did this through the Word and the Spirit.

This reminds me of the famous Joyce Meyer quote "The Bible doesn't even say this, God's got to put it in your spirit like He put it in mine."

Ummm. No.

You do not base your arguments on scripture (with the exception of private interpretation, not Biblical exegesis) and so they are to be rejected. If you choose to tithe, do so, and I believe the Lord will bless you, but not because you are giving 10%, but because you are giving, period. However you have no scriptural grounds for teaching other believers to do this, EVEN in your local assembly. And when you call other believer rebellious for not tithing, you are doing nothing less than usurping the judgment seat of Christ.

[Jason B]

Bro. Price you are simply speaking straight nonsense.

[good samaritan]

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ

I think these are ministries that are to be supported by our giving. The biggest issue I have is that tithers solely support the church. I haven't ever taught tithing in a way that makes someone feel as they are cursed or going to hell. I have only taught it by example, but I have noticed you have tithers and you have people who give one or two dollars.
Out of the many that disagree with tithing it seems most don't support the ministry. I agree fully with arguments made against mandated tithing. I hope those who take this stance are truly supporting the ministry.

[shag]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ

I think these are ministries that are to be supported by our giving. The biggest issue I have is that tithers solely support the church. I haven't ever taught tithing in a way that makes someone feel as they are cursed or going to hell. I have only taught it by example, but I have noticed you have tithers and you have people who give one or two dollars.
Out of the many that disagree with tithing it seems most don't support the ministry. I agree fully with arguments made against mandated tithing. I hope those who take this stance are truly supporting the ministry.

Could be some legitimacy to this in some places...at the same time however, it's highly likely that many antitithers are freely giving to assist the poor and needy in the congregations (more than they are the offering plate, and moreso outside the "4 walls") that are getting sucked dry of any/all their leftovers after church tax, I mean tithes, and then trying to pay their bills. I know antitithers that have taken members out and bought them groceries, vehicles, made mortgage payments for them etc, while the ones they bought them for continue to pay their tax i mean tithes to keep from being 'cursed'.


Only big and beautiful church I think God is interested in us building, is the building up of eachother which doesn't require a big and beautiful man made building.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by shag

Could be some legitimacy to this in some places...at the same time however, it's highly likely that many antitithers are freely giving to assist the poor and needy in the congregations (more than they are the offering plate, and moreso outside the "4 walls") that are getting sucked dry of any/all their leftovers after church tax, I mean tithes, and then trying to pay their bills. I know antitithers that have taken members out and bought them groceries, vehicles, made mortgage payments for them etc, while the ones they bought them for continue to pay their tax i mean tithes to keep from being 'cursed'.


Only big and beautiful church I think God is interested in us building, is the building up of eachother which doesn't require a big and beautiful man made building.

I think giving to the poor is essential, but by taking care of the ministry you do the poor the greatest giving.(sharing the gospel) It maybe coincidence, but I find myself helping more nonetithers than tithers. (don't mean this ugly) "But it maybe that" God will place finances in the hands of those who give back. I don't say this matter of factly, but only to consider.
I do believe that many that I'm sharing this thread with are spiritual led givers no stones. Love my brothers in the Lord no matter if opposing views.

[good samaritan]

Also I just want to say that I want to build a really big and beautiful church in my local community. With al the luxuries we can afford. I want to fill it full of Jesus name Holy Ghost filled people. I don't think God is any offended with this logic as long as it is just a means to reach souls.
If it is not Gods' will for us then I am totally surrendered. I am glad to do a work on whatever level. The Bible says, "where our treasures are there will our heart be also." If you won't to become more kingdom minded start investing your treasures in the kingdom of God and see if your heart will follow.

[good samaritan]

David in the OT took of the showbread which was not lawful. Jesus in the NT healed on the Sabbath. Both of the situations was called into violation of the law. I don't think the law was ever intended to bring into bondage, but instead to keep safe from bondage. The law points us to the two great commandments of love God and man.(most of Israel missed the point)

I wouldn't dream of imposing a ten percent tax on the poor and widow, but personally I will support the ministry in tithes and offering. I believe the OT tithing is a good example, but each will have to decide what God expects of you personally. Whether you tithe or not? put God first and let him lead you. We shouldn't discourage those with the conviction to tithe nor condemn those who don't tithe, but both should agree to liberally support the ministry of God as the Lord has prospered us.

[good samaritan]

Agree, building doesn't matter. If God doesn't care then I'll vote for the bigger and nicer one. God first though, everything else in order of importance.

[obriencp]

it seems the Pro-Tithers keep labelling the anti-tithers as disobedient, unsupportive to ministry, and greedy non-givers.

Just because you are against a mandatory 10% of pay given to local church does not mean you are against giving, or supporting a ministry. The issue of this thread is not giving, supporting a ministry, or helping the poor. The issue is whether or not a mandated tithe given to the local church is applicable in the new testament. I don't see it.

I see NT examples of giving, of supporting the ministry, helping the poor, etc. However, I don't see a mandated tithe given to support the local body.

[good samaritan]

As I have stated already, I believe we have some NT givers here on this thread. The problem is most people don't give at all. A very small percent of every church actually keep that church operating. Pro-tithers and anti-tithers alike, many don't give regardless of their theological stance.
If we don't trust the leaders in our local assemblies then we should find somewhere we do. I don't think non-giving has much to do with fear of abuse, but instead fear of losing what we have. Most would say I can't afford to give. (Who can afford to give?)
Many think, well if I had a lot of money I would give and that is not true either. A large percent of the wealthy don't give unless it is advantageous.(tax write off) People who are givers do so because they have committed themselves to be regardless of their financial status. The widow with the mite was a giver in proportion to what she had. I don't want anyone to feel condemned, but only to walk closer to God and allow him to guide our steps.