Tithing…Is it a command? - Page 47

shag · #**461** 08-10-2014, 10:44 PM

HREA, you mentioned "the ministry" receives the tithes. :who all is that inclusive of out of all the the NT ministries, that would receive 10% of everyone's else's income, according to scripture?

Sean · #**462** 08-10-2014, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRea

Many have demonstrated over and again that they have a huge problem with giving to support the ministry. So much so that they are willing to disobey a command of the Lord. You mean the COMMAND OF MEN...

Both Galatians 6:6 and 1 Corinthians 9:14 are not talking about "freewill offerings" but directly supporting the NT ministry. In fact, 1 Corinthians 9:14 makes it a command of the Lord, not mine, but the Lord. You must reconcile yourself to this, its between you and God if you chose not to obey these two very evident passages. You are not telling the truth and you know it...it does not mention percentage giving as you assume...

You better pay attention to the OT scriptures because they part of our very foundation. The Law, as many know, is not found in Proverbs or Malachi, but in the books of Moses. You cannot wave your hand and say that this passage or that passage doesn't pertain, they very much pertain.

Proverbs 3:9 is not part of the Law, but is a book of instruction that Paul said was part of our foundation. Malachi, of course, is part of the prophets.

To Jesus and Paul, all of the O.T. is considered the Law(you will see the Law all through it(the O.T.) demonstrated)...Just carefully look at these verses...Psalm 82:6
"I said, 'You are "gods"; you are all sons of the Most High.'
John 10:34 Jesus replied to them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I said, "You are gods"'?

John 15: 25But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
Psalms 69:4.
They that hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of mine head: they that would destroy me, being mine enemies wrongfully, are mighty: then I restored that which I took not away.

Jesus said ALL of the prophecies concerning him were considered the LAW, including the prophets(like Psalms 82:6 and Psalm 69:4 above)...
Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

This is what your misunderstanding and blending of the Testaments does....

2 Cor 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

You will go spiritually blind trying to mix the Old Testament into the New Testament....

good samaritan · #**463** 08-10-2014, 11:26 PM

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ

I think these are ministries that are to be supported by our giving. The biggest issue I have is that tithers solely support the church. I haven't ever taught tithing in a way that makes someone feel as they are cursed or going to hell. I have only taught it by example, but I have noticed you have tithers and you have people who give one or two dollars.
Out of the many that disagree with tithing it seems most don't support the ministry. I agree fully with arguments made against mandated tithing. I hope those who take this stance are truly supporting the ministry.

good samaritan · #**464** 08-10-2014, 11:43 PM

Also I just want to say that I want to build a really big and beautiful church in my local community. With al the luxuries we can afford. I want to fill it full of Jesus name Holy Ghost filled people. I don't think God is any offended with this logic as long as it is just a means to reach souls.
If it is not Gods' will for us then I am totally surrendered. I am glad to do a work on whatever level. The Bible says, "where our treasures are there will our heart be also." If you won't to become more kingdom minded start investing your treasures in the kingdom of God and see if your heart will follow.

shag · #**465** 08-10-2014, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Ephesians 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ

I think these are ministries that are to be supported by our giving. The biggest issue I have is that tithers solely support the church. I haven't ever taught tithing in a way that makes someone feel as they are cursed or going to hell. I have only taught it by example, but I have noticed you have tithers and you have people who give one or two dollars.
Out of the many that disagree with tithing it seems most don't support the ministry. I agree fully with arguments made against mandated tithing. I hope those who take this stance are truly supporting the ministry.

Could be some legitimacy to this in some places...at the same time however, it's highly likely that many antitithers are freely giving to assist the poor and needy in the congregations (more than they are the offering plate, and moreso outside the "4 walls") that are getting sucked dry of any/all their leftovers after church tax, I mean tithes, and then trying to pay their bills. I know antitithers that have taken members out and bought them groceries, vehicles, made mortgage payments for them etc, while the ones they bought them for continue to pay their tax i mean tithes to keep from being 'cursed'.

Only big and beautiful church I think God is interested in us building, is the building up of eachother

which doesn't require a big and beautiful man made building.

good samaritan · #**466** 08-11-2014, 12:09 AM

David in the OT took of the showbread which was not lawful. Jesus in the NT healed on the Sabbath. Both of the situations was called into violation of the law. I don't think the law was ever intended to bring into bondage, but instead to keep safe from bondage. The law points us to the two great commandments of love God and man.(most of Israel missed the point)

I wouldn't dream of imposing a ten percent tax on the poor and widow, but personally I will support the ministry in tithes and offering. I believe the OT tithing is a good example, but each will have to decide what God expects of you personally. Whether you tithe or not? put God first and let him lead you. We shouldn't discourage those with the conviction to tithe nor condemn those who don't tithe, but both should agree to liberally support the ministry of God as the Lord has prospered us.

good samaritan · #**467** 08-11-2014, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shag

Could be some legitimacy to this in some places...at the same time however, it's highly likely that many antitithers are freely giving to assist the poor and needy in the congregations (more than they are the offering plate, and moreso outside the "4 walls") that are getting sucked dry of any/all their leftovers after church tax, I mean tithes, and then trying to pay their bills. I know antitithers that have taken members out and bought them groceries, vehicles, made mortgage payments for them etc, while the ones they bought them for continue to pay their tax i mean tithes to keep from being 'cursed'.

Only big and beautiful church I think God is interested in us building, is the building up of eachother

which doesn't require a big and beautiful man made building.

I think giving to the poor is essential, but by taking care of the ministry you do the poor the greatest giving.(sharing the gospel) It maybe coincidence, but I find myself helping more nonetithers than tithers. (don't mean this ugly) "But it maybe that" God will place finances in the hands of those who give back. I don't say this matter of factly, but only to consider.
I do believe that many that I'm sharing this thread with are spiritual led givers no stones. Love my brothers in the Lord no matter if opposing views.

good samaritan · #**468** 08-11-2014, 12:34 AM

Agree, building doesn't matter. If God doesn't care then I'll vote for the bigger and nicer one. God first though, everything else in order of importance.

obriencp · #**469** 08-11-2014, 08:51 AM

it seems the Pro-Tithers keep labelling the anti-tithers as disobedient, unsupportive to ministry, and greedy non-givers.

Just because you are against a mandatory 10% of pay given to local church does not mean you are against giving, or supporting a ministry. The issue of this thread is not giving, supporting a ministry, or helping the poor. The issue is whether or not a mandated tithe given to the local church is applicable in the new testament. I don't see it.

I see NT examples of giving, of supporting the ministry, helping the poor, etc. However, I don't see a mandated tithe given to support the local body.

good samaritan · #**470** 08-11-2014, 09:49 AM

As I have stated already, I believe we have some NT givers here on this thread. The problem is most people don't give at all. A very small percent of every church actually keep that church operating. Pro-tithers and anti-tithers alike, many don't give regardless of their theological stance.
If we don't trust the leaders in our local assemblies then we should find somewhere we do. I don't think non-giving has much to do with fear of abuse, but instead fear of losing what we have. Most would say I can't afford to give. (Who can afford to give?)
Many think, well if I had a lot of money I would give and that is not true either. A large percent of the wealthy don't give unless it is advantageous.(tax write off) People who are givers do so because they have committed themselves to be regardless of their financial status. The widow with the mite was a giver in proportion to what she had. I don't want anyone to feel condemned, but only to walk closer to God and allow him to guide our steps.