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Old 09-27-2008, 09:17 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Re: Are Independent Churches Operating in Rebellio

How can you rebel against a man-made organization that has NO divine authority? Organizations are made by men and can be used as a tool to promote the work of God but they are NEVER the work of God.
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:33 AM
JaneEyre JaneEyre is offline
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Re: Are Independent Churches Operating in Rebellio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
How can you rebel against a man-made organization that has NO divine authority? Organizations are made by men and can be used as a tool to promote the work of God but they are NEVER the work of God.



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Old 09-27-2008, 10:18 AM
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Re: Are Independent Churches Operating in Rebellio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
How can you rebel against a man-made organization that has NO divine authority? Organizations are made by men and can be used as a tool to promote the work of God but they are NEVER the work of God.
correct...good post
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Old 09-28-2008, 02:53 PM
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Re: Are Independent Churches Operating in Rebellio

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Originally Posted by Steve Epley View Post
How can you rebel against a man-made organization that has NO divine authority? Organizations are made by men and can be used as a tool to promote the work of God but they are NEVER the work of God.
Steve, this gets my vote for quote of the day.

Most Orgs do more harm than good. Stiffle leadership's incentive to listen for the Spirit's leading.

"Son's of God are lead by the Spirit of God." Rom 8:14

God gave mankind the right to make the wrong choices. He didn't interfere when they decided to eat the forbidden fruit. Most of the posts here express the opinion that everybody must be prevented from making mistakes. Let me make a profound statement: "YOU CAN'T STRAIGHTEN EVERYBODY ELSE OUT SO QUIT TRYING"
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:57 AM
All4one All4one is offline
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Re: Are Independent Churches Operating in Rebellio

Steve Epley
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Re: Are Independent Churches Operating in Rebellio
How can you rebel against a man-made organization that has NO divine authority? Organizations are made by men and can be used as a tool to promote the work of God but they are NEVER the work of God.

Hey, I think Steve Epley is a rebel!
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Old 09-27-2008, 12:13 PM
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Re: Are Independent Churches Operating in Rebellio

Charnok, you have pricked my heart, conviction swells deeply within.

I would like for you to be my leader and mentor. Please tell me where to send my dues.
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Old 09-27-2008, 01:57 PM
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Re: Are Independent Churches Operating in Rebellio

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Originally Posted by Charnock View Post
Should every pastor and church be connected to a denomination?
No.

Quote:
Can there be true oversight without denominational affiliation?
Yes.

Quote:
Are independent churches operating in rebellion?

Some yes and some no.
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Old 09-28-2008, 02:00 PM
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Re: Are Independent Churches Operating in Rebellio

It looks like some NEED an organization...for 40 years I have watched people leave this or that to turn right around and start this or that...It must be our human nature...
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:50 AM
Rhoni Rhoni is offline
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Re: Are Independent Churches Operating in Rebellio

There has to be accountability for eveyone even preachers. Some go off the deep end doctrinally. and off into control and manipulation for which the people need safeguards from this type of leadership in place . If not, many times, it comes dangerously close to cultish behaviors, of course some of our organizations do too.

Galatians is a good chapter of the Bible to read!

Blessings, Rhoni
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:50 PM
theoldpaths theoldpaths is offline
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Re: Are Independent Churches Operating in Rebellio

If one were to study church history, they would find out that as the last eyewitnesses of our Lord died off, false doctrine and false teachers went up.

The devil can't stand against strong leadership, so he waits until they die off or lose their influence.

Act 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
Act 20:30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Act 20:31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Paul was aware of this and so are other strong leaders and will not cease to warn others so that they can be prepared. We are not ignorant of his devices.

As false doctrines and teachers abounded, there must be a way to tell who is false and who is not. Probably during that time, much of that was done by reputation and/or who they studied under, assuming that what they were taught by their teachers was what they themselves still believed and clung to. A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches. Another way was by what doctrine they held to. Jesus and Paul were all concerned about feeding His sheep so that they would know truth so that if someone came around teaching something different, they would be ashamed.

Nowadays, there are many oneness organizations that hold to the basic doctrines of belief in one God, Acts 2:38 salvation, Jesus Name baptism for the remission of sins, baptism of the Holy Ghost, and holiness.

If a traveling evangelist made himself available to a local church, probably that Pastor would ask for references - which speaks to his reputation and having a good name - and what basic doctrines he holds to. I can't imagine a 3 stepper Acts 2:38 church allowing a 1 stepper evangelist to come preach to some possible sinner, never been-born again people in his congregation.

So reputation and basic doctrines and holiness is probably what certain pastors look for nowadays in determining whether to let a traveling evangelist that they haven't heard of before, stand behind his pulpit.

Organizations can be a way of guaranteeing basic doctrines and some type of minimal agreed upon set of holiness standards. However, references would probably still need to be checked out to ensure that just because they believed in certain basic doctrines and minimal holiness at one point in time in the distant past, doesn't necessarily mean they still hold to those things now. While, yearly re-affirming a commitment to doctrine and holiness could be one way to ensure that, as we have seen in at least one organization, signing a person's name to re-affirm beliefs in basic doctrines and a minimal holiness standards doesn't mean anything to some. But perhaps a long time ago, if one held a "current" license with a certain organization, it would give some comfort in not having to do as much checking.

From Frank Bartleman's Azusa Street...

"A high standard was held up for a clean life. 'When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him" (Isa. 59:19)" - page 54
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