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View Poll Results: Do you receive ALL the tithes or have control over ALL of them?
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Yes, I receive ALL the tithes in our church.
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2 |
20.00% |
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I pay taxes on ALL the tithes I receive.
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0 |
0% |
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I receive a salary from the church and pay taxes accordingly.
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50.00% |
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The IRS can pound salt, for all I care! It's none of their business what I get paid!
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30.00% |
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07-13-2007, 02:23 PM
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arbitrary subjective label
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Fifth Brick Ranch on the left.
Posts: 1,640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
. . . I don't want to go to Hell or jail.  |
Everybody should go to Hell at least once in their lives!
Great snowmobiling!
__________________
Engineering solutions for theological problems.
Despite today's rising cost of living, it remains popular.
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Sir Winston Churchill
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Sir Winston Churchill
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin
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07-13-2007, 02:23 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
I know the answer ... the difference being that instruments were not mandated as part of the Mosaic law ... in the strictest sense ... they pre-date the Law ... the same law ....often used by preachers to teach tithing but will not apply the principles for the its distribution and accountability...
Keep in mind there are a slew of Mosaic laws, we could list them for you, and I don't mean dietary ones, that are never re-addressed in the NT ... BUT you would expect your saints to practice them ... today ...because they are not "done away with". New Testament giving is addressed throughout the epistles.
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Dan think about this those things NOT binding on the church were clearly addressed sacrifices-preisthood-meats-sabbaths-holy days-cermonial statues.
But you are correct BOTH instrumental music AND tithing predates the law. Tithing 430 years before the law. It was incorporated into the law. Jesus said to do it. Paul clearly alluded to it in 1Cor. 9 & Heb. 7.
And NO where did Paul ever say it was fulfilled and NOT binding on the NT church just like instrumental music. BOTH stand fall on the same premise can't do away with one without the other. You must become a Campbellite however the baptism issue might be a problem.
Think about it. Freewill offerings were instituted also IN the law and were part and parcle of the law like the tithe. However they existed like tithe before the law.
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07-13-2007, 02:25 PM
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arbitrary subjective label
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Fifth Brick Ranch on the left.
Posts: 1,640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
That is a very honorable thing you are doing, Brother. My hat is off to you. You are the first apostolic pastor I have heard who pastors without taking a salary.
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Pastor Timothy Mitchell of Montgomery, Alabama, doesn't, or didn't for 25 some-odd years, take any money from his church. He planted it and grew it himself, all the while running his own business.
You just need to meet more church planters!
__________________
Engineering solutions for theological problems.
Despite today's rising cost of living, it remains popular.
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Sir Winston Churchill
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Sir Winston Churchill
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin
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07-13-2007, 02:28 PM
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Guest
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Epley
Dan think about this those things NOT binding on the church were clearly addressed sacrifices-preisthood-meats-sabbaths-holy days-cermonial statues.
But you are correct BOTH instrumental music AND tithing predates the law. Tithing 430 years before the law. It was incorporated into the law. Jesus said to do it. Paul clearly alluded to it in 1Cor. 9 & Heb. 7.
And NO where did Paul ever say it was fulfilled and NOT binding on the NT church just like instrumental music. BOTH stand fall on the same premise can't do away with one without the other. You must become a Campbellite however the baptism issue might be a problem.
Think about it. Freewill offerings were instituted also IN the law and were part and parcle of the law like the tithe. However they existed like tithe before the law. |
Not all of the laws are addressed elder ... in the NT ...yet you don't expect folks to practice them ...
again ...would you like me to list them for you ...
Jesus spoke to the Pharisees about their attitude towards giving ... not that they had to tithe ... and this of course was still UNDER THE LAW ... of course the UNDER THE LAW argument works when speaking about the thief on the cross, right????
Paul gives NO INSTRUCTIONS about tithing but alludes to it once in Hebrews when speaking about an OT situation.
You have no bible, Elder ... it's plain to see.
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07-13-2007, 02:28 PM
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Shaking the dust off my shoes.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Nunya bidness
Posts: 9,004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
That is a very honorable thing you are doing, Brother. My hat is off to you. You are the first apostolic pastor I have heard who pastors without taking a salary.
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I need to clarify this post. As far as I know, MF did not take a salary either. I bring it up only so I won't be accused of being a liar.
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07-13-2007, 02:39 PM
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arbitrary subjective label
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Fifth Brick Ranch on the left.
Posts: 1,640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rico
so I won't be accused of being a liar.
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How about scurrilous? Can we accuse you of being scurrilous?
scurrilous
__________________
Engineering solutions for theological problems.
Despite today's rising cost of living, it remains popular.
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Sir Winston Churchill
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Sir Winston Churchill
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin
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07-13-2007, 02:39 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOfWord
They are supposed to pay taxes on what they RECEIVE. If a pastor receives ALL of the tithes in say a 500 family church, with the average family tithing $5k, that would be, 2.5 million $$.
My point is that VERY, VERY few pastors, if any, who believe in receiving ALL the church's tithes, report it and pay taxes on it. They are lying and deceiving.
If they believe it, that is fine. Just be consistent and claim it and pay taxes on it.
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MOW, how do you know these ministers who take the whole tithe don't give some back to the church? It just seems that many automatically think evil of these men without knowing what they do with the money given them.
__________________
His banner over me is LOVE....  My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?
To be a servant of God, it will cost us our total commitment to God, and God alone. His burden must be our burden... Sis Alvear
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07-13-2007, 02:42 PM
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Guest
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: H-Town, Texas
Posts: 18,009
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BTW, trumpets are played in heaven ... Rev 8-11 ....
find tithing in heaven????
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07-13-2007, 02:42 PM
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arbitrary subjective label
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Fifth Brick Ranch on the left.
Posts: 1,640
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea
Not all of the laws are addressed elder ... in the NT ...yet you don't expect folks to practice them ...
again ...would you like me to list them for you ...
Jesus spoke to the Pharisees about their attitude towards giving ... not that they had to tithe ... and this of course was still UNDER THE LAW ... of course the UNDER THE LAW argument works when speaking about the thief on the cross, right????
Paul gives NO INSTRUCTIONS about tithing but alludes to it once in Hebrews when speaking about an OT situation.
You have no bible, Elder ... it's plain to see.
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Let's turn this around:
Can God bless a stingy believer more than he can bless a believer with a giving heart?
What is so objectionable about following this principle?
Please note I didn't ask what was ojectionable about teaching it as a salvational issue or NT law.
God blesses people that give of their abundance with a cheerful heart. It sure has worked for me. Would you deprive your fellow travellers of the fullness of God's blessing for their lives?
__________________
Engineering solutions for theological problems.
Despite today's rising cost of living, it remains popular.
"It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried." - Sir Winston Churchill
"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." - Sir Winston Churchill
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." - Benjamin Franklin
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07-13-2007, 02:50 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: AZ
Posts: 16,746
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Quote:
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God blesses people that give of their abundance with a cheerful heart. It sure has worked for me. Would you deprive your fellow travellers of the fullness of God's blessing for their lives?
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Exactly! Because it has been "rolled" into the 2nd Commandment, to love your neighbor.
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