Salvation: easy or hard?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by TheLegalist

Salvation comes at a cost and is purchased!

some notes in the margin of my Bible near Romans 6:23 which says:
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus "Christ our Lord."

Salvation is
a gift to receive
not
a goal to achieve

Gift --something that is voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation. It must be accepted --voluntarily received-- not forced on the recipient. Voluntarily given and voluntarily received

If you go to hell, you pay your own way; but you go to Heaven on a pass. John R. Rice

A note near Jeremiah 31
The New Covenant is a "gift certificate" for salvation.
The merchandise is not free.
Someone paid the price.
We just go to the store and claim the purchased item.

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by allstate1

Then explain to me the gift of the Holy ghost, saved by grace and Jesus paying the price at Calvary!!! Now that makes it free to us today!! So I guess technically it wasnt free!! But it is free for you and I!!! Unless you wanna start putting a price on all the legalistic issues that ultr-cons have!!!

1) so God just simply gave you salvation?
2) you did absolutely nothing at all? Basically you didn't lift a finger and bam God said... your saaaaaaved. Didn't have to repent which is a complete turning aside everything in life for him. Family, possessions, goals, etc... Leaning on his leading vs what you want to do. Which is basically signing over rights to your will in life.

3) Christ paid the price for authority to be the administrator or mediator of a new covenant by atonement. You had no spiritual collateral to pay for ultimate price of atonement on your behalf. He "offers" (which is the same word as gift), salvation to all. Does it mean you have obtained salvation because he purchased it? NO! He offers freely to all to those who believe. Believe is contextual and is not a isolate term but a continous aspect to the context of the presenter to whom you believe. Thus believe is a general term of the whole. Jesus clearly all throughout his ministry teaches the principles of covenant life from beginning to end.

4) The costs of the heart to enter and abide are clear and they cost you your life current life and possibly much persecution and hardship.

5) The term grace is about the purchase of atonement and fashioning of the new covenant. It is not about aspects within covenant or it's legal requirements. You are saved by grace(Christ giving of himself) through faith. "Through faith" is your response in whole to the contractual requirments. Grace in itself saves nobody. It takes faith to save because of grace. Faith again is contextual upon the information and request of the presenter. Faith comes by hearing. which means a presenter of information is needed. That information has context as a whole. Hearing by the Word of God. Which can be written, verbal or Spiritual teaching.

Salvation has requiremens which is "abiding" in Christ which is to abide in covenant or be at peace with God through covenant contract and it's requirements. Otherwise God will have something against you and you will not be considered "at peace" with his will/contract as the some of the churches in Revelations.

[allstate1]

And all of that would be worthless without Jesus at Calvary!!

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by Sam

some notes in the margin of my Bible near Romans 6:23 which says:
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus "Christ our Lord."

Salvation is
a gift to receive
not
a goal to achieve

only partially correct. Salvation is two fold.

1) it is present aspect of abiding in covenant promise if so he have know God is faithful and we are secure.
2) with view to obtain as Abraham that which is promised by covenant by being found faithful to the contract price of giving up all to obtain

If you believe in true repentance to be saved..

1) It is a price to obtain because you forsake all to receive.
2) it is not a moment in time but life long which is faithful. As unfaithful is turning again away from that which saves and unto death.

If not you don't believe in biblical repentance which is part of the purchase price.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/netdict/purchase

Purchase

1 a archaic : gain, acquire b : to acquire (real estate) by means other than descent c : to obtain by paying money or its equivalent : buy d : to obtain by labor, danger, or sacrifice

Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
Mat 13:45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
Mat 13:46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

What did it take to be considered by Christ following? To obtain right standing of "following" a prerequisite must take place.

Mat 10:37 Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:38 And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Mat 10:39 Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

Gift --something that is voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation. It must be accepted --voluntarily received-- not forced on the recipient. Voluntarily given and voluntarily received

So God asks nothing in exchange for salvation? I guess Jesus was wrong. Keep your life and you have eternal life anyway.

Did Abraham realize his promise without a price of obedience?

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus "Christ our Lord."

context... The gift in reference here is about presentment not that it doesn't come with a cost to obtain. God gifted salvation to the whole world by his purchase on the cross. Doesn't have anything to do whether you received eternal life but it was a gift to all i.e. something he did on our part to present to all the offering of it. This gift is seen through JESUS CHRIST. How do we obtain it? We obtain it by FAITH IN RELIANCE ON THE CONTEXT OF THE MESSAGE GIVEN by the PRESENTER! Faith cometh by hearing (which has contextual application and meaning) and hearing by the Word of God(varying presenter which could be the literal Word of God, preacher, or conviction of Spirit)

If you go to hell, you pay your own way; but you go to Heaven on a pass. John R. Rice

A note near Jeremiah 31
The New Covenant is a "gift certificate" for salvation.
The merchandise is not free.
Someone paid the price.
We just go to the store and claim the purchased item.

I would get a new Bible without commentary. Also you can't claim anything with negating all else as he won't claim you.

[allstate1]

@thelegalist I believe you are putting too high a price on a life that is without salvation!!! If I obtain the whole world and lose my soul what is it worth?? In short you are saying that a life of sin is of some value!! You are also quoting scripture in Matthew which is before Calvary and before the HolyGhost was given!!!!

[Michlow]

Originally Posted by Aquila

I'm a believer who can feel you. I rejected the false "god" of institutional religion for this reason. I'd never been more troubled or depressed than when I was jumping through the hoops of religion in effort to supposedly please God. Now, I've experienced God in the dimensions beyond religion. God isn't as hung up on most things like our religion is. The politics of our religion is also detestable in God's eyes. I see sin as not just an arbitrary "Thou shalt not..." because God said so or because God is so squeemish he can't endure sin. But I see sin as something that harms us and prevents growth into all that God desires us to be. Sin is self destructive and most bring their own temporal judgments upon us before we ever stand before the judgment seat of God.

I have one friend who is still Apostolic, and we have a monthly lunch date. She is great because she really challenges me and asks me tons of questions, and really makes me think. One day she was asking me "Do you think this is a sin? How about this? Or That?"

And I finally had to explain that I don't think of things in terms of sin. You could say that the word isn't even a part of my vocabulary. I think because it hearkens back to my former life. I agree that there are behaviors that harm ourselves and those around us, and therefore should not be done, but I admit that in some cases these things can be subjective. (and I tend not to believe that "because the Bible says so" is a sufficient explanation)

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by allstate1

@thelegalist I believe you are putting too high a price on a life that is without salvation!!!

Christ put the value to obtain. You can ingore it all you want but it's the facts. he place value on your will to serve him.

If I obtain the whole world and lose my soul what is it worth??

You are losing your life to him.... sheesh

In short you are saying that a life of sin is of some value!!

uh no I am saying my service is of value to him. We are more than sin.

You are also quoting scripture in Matthew which is before Calvary and before the HolyGhost was given!!!!

yeah let's throw Jesus out... he doesn't matter. Matter of fact "Marcion" we will just read limited sections of Paul and ignore the rest.

[allstate1]

I think you are to arguemantative to understand the point I am making!! Also I do not believe in Marcionism!!

[TheLegalist]

Originally Posted by allstate1

I think you are to arguemantative to understand the point I am making!! Also I do not believe in Marcionism!!

uh no... i understand your points perfectly. Currently your points are wrong, and poor and negate the whole of scripture and it's clear teaching. You might not be a Marcionist but you have heretical leanings that way. Which is well known by the Paulinists today at the expense of Christ. Very close framework to his mentality toward the Gospels and others.

[allstate1]

I have an antique watch thas is in hundreds of pieces and I want to sell it as is!!! Prolly wont get a lot for it!! But I have a friend who is a watch maker and he has offered to put it together at no charge!! Once he is done it will be worth a lot of money!!! So I can leave it in the box where it will remain basically worthless or take it to a free service and get it fixed and have something valuable!!