Heaven with an unrepented sin.

[Socialite]

Wonderful post, MM.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by MrMasterMind

It is possible to go to heaven with unrepented sin

When growing up we were taught to pity the poor man who lived for God for 30 years but happened to see a sixteen year old walk by, her skirt blow up, and just as a feeling of lust took over, he dies.

Sin can never enter in. Lost and doomed to hell forever.

Of course we were taught the opposite of that was the once saved always saved paradigm. In which case why sweat the small stuff, no matter what you were going to heaven.

What we were not taught was the law of covenant.

Covenant is actually another way of speaking of contract law. Even today we refer to the “marriage covenant.”

Romans 8: 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,m neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. NIV

This passage has often been misread as espousing once saved always saved.

What it actually says is a believer is in covenant with Christ. Sins have been repented of, propitiation accepted, and Lordship of Christ declared.

Once the covenant has been enjoined no one except those in privity can violate the covenant. Therefore unlike the marriage vow “until death do us part” has no place in the Christian covenant because that covenant transcends even death(that alone is worth shouting over.) Basic rule of law is only those within a covenant can breach it, an third party not in privity has no say.

Example- if there is a lawful marriage a next door neighbor cannot declare that marriage over because he wants to take that woman to be his wife. ONLY the parties in covenant can breach.

But it is possible for one or both parties to disavow covenant (divorce), therefore although nothing can separate you from the love of God, you CAN separate yourself.

Many other verses substantiate it is possible to be lost once saved.

But what about a breach of vows, does that automatically break the covenant?

Adultery is an often used example of breach of vows. Hypothetical- If my wife were to walk into a room and catch me in the act of coitus with an underage girl. Have I breached? Undoubtedly. Am I divorced legally as of that second. No.

It is the decision of the party grieved in this case the putative spouse as to the FUTURE action. She could even wait for months making up her mind. She can even choose to stay in covenant even though I had not yet repented, and we are STILL married.

It is the same when the Christian sins, even knowingly, willfully, and horrifically. The Christian is NOT automatically out of covenant with God. The blood stills covers, the covenant is still intact unless or until God decides to dissolve it.

Hence it is much more difficult to lose our salvation than we were taught, but it is not impossible either.

I agree in part but your end result and point and focus is wrong. God always considers his covenant before you as he is faithful. To neglect and cast off faith for the flesh is immediate violation of what righteousness is in the covenant. You ARE NOT righeous before him. His blood does not cover you. You cannot be in unrepentant sin and righteous at the same time. To walk in the light is to do his commandment and your sins are cleansed. To turn away from His leading is to cast off all the righteousness by Christ you have done which is FAITH. Your past FAITH is not considered now. Your sin stands before you and the law condemns you.

Jas 2:9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

This is toward Christians! Faith without the resulting action is not "life or righteousness."

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1Jn 2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
1Jn 2:5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:
1Jn 2:6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

cf John 15:4-15

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

I agree in part but your end result and point and focus is wrong. God always considers his covenant before you as he is faithful. To neglect and cast off faith for the flesh is immediate violation of what righteousness is in the covenant. You ARE NOT righeous before him. His blood does not cover you. You cannot be in unrepentant sin and righteous at the same time. To walk in the light is to do his commandment and your sins are cleansed. To turn away from His leading is to cast off all the righteousness by Christ you have done which is FAITH. Your past FAITH is not considered now. Your sin stands before you and the law condemns you.

Jas 2:9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.

This is toward Christians! Faith without the resulting action is not "life or righteousness."

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

1Jn 2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jn 2:4 Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him,
1Jn 2:5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:
1Jn 2:6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

cf John 15:4-15

We were not made righteous, or loved, because of our works. We won't be cast off, or have our righteousness reversed because of our works. We simply, stay loving Him, stay in good relationship with Him. And he's not a passive judge either... He's pursuing us! We limit the Gospel to view God as one half of the "marriage party." He's about 7/8 of the marriage party.

The second bolded portion is how many UC's understand the Gospel and Grace. It was a moment when the past was erased, but the Cross, and our justification, do not exist for the present or future ---- unless of course, we specifically ask for it to. After our pardon, it's back on us doing good works to be approved and saved....

That's NOT the Gospel

[Krazo]

Thank God for mercy, and grace. Without it we'd be cinders mostly. However, if a woman kept seeing her husband in those predicaments she will probably END the marriage. The same is true if we continue in sin.

[MrMasterMind]

Originally Posted by Krazo

Thank God for mercy, and grace. Without it we'd be cinders mostly. However, if a woman kept seeing her husband in those predicaments she will probably END the marriage. The same is true if we continue in sin.

Absolutely, so will God. The point being continuing in sin versus committing a sin. God is not looking for excuses to withhold His Grace, and does not withdraw His hand from the Christian the second he/she crosses a
commandment such as many as us were taught from our youth.

Nevertheless, to continue to flaunt sin will eventually lead to disinheritance, that is true.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Socialite

We were not made righteous, or loved, because of our works. We won't be cast off, or have our righteousness reversed because of our works. We simply, stay loving Him, stay in good relationship with Him. And he's not a passive judge either... He's pursuing us! We limit the Gospel to view God as one half of the "marriage party." He's about 7/8 of the marriage party.

The second bolded portion is how many UC's understand the Gospel and Grace. It was a moment when the past was erased, but the Cross, and our justification, do not exist for the present or future ---- unless of course, we specifically ask for it to. After our pardon, it's back on us doing good works to be approved and saved....

That's NOT the Gospel

No it is on us from the beginning to walk by faith to be considered right before him. It is his work we do by his leading and power. You have a gospel in which what we do has nothing to do with our response at all to be considered "righteous". Again you are at a contradiction. You have faithfulness = still can sin and be considered Faithful or walking in faith. sorry but that is not truth. Living Faith that saves is the response to God that he considers righteous just as ABraham was considered righteous. to you it is not practical but forensic.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

No it is on us from the beginning to walk by faith to be considered right before him. It is his work we do by his leading and power. You have a gospel in which what we do has nothing to do with our response at all to be considered "righteous". Again you are at a contradiction. You have faithfulness = still can sin and be considered Faithful or walking in faith. sorry but that is not truth. Living Faith that saves is the response to God that he considers righteous just as ABraham was considered righteous. to you it is not practical but forensic.

You're half right. Nothing I do is considered righteous. Anything I do perform that is good, right and righteous, is His work, not mine. That is the definition of sanctification. There's an old Sunday School song in there somewhere: "He's still working on me, to make me what I ought to me. It took Him just a week to make the moon and the stars, sun and the earth, Jupiter and Mars... loving and patient He must be, because He's still working on me." (Lyrics should actually be "through" me)

Luke, I highly recommend to you Paul's letter to the Galatians. We did not begin with our good works, and we won't end with our good works either.

God has manifested His righteousness apart from the Law “even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe” (Rom. 3:21-22)

The judgment of God rests upon all men outside of a saving relationship with Jesus Christ because of imputed sin, our inherited sin nature and our own personal sins.

We stand guilty before God and deserve the death penalty until we come to Christ alone for a right standing before God (Rom. 6:23).

Romans 5:1 - Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”

[Socialite]

I am shocked that you are turning away so soon from God, who called you to himself through the loving mercy of Christ.[c] You are following a different way that pretends to be the Good News 7 but is not the Good News at all. You are being fooled by those who deliberately twist the truth concerning Christ.

8 Let God’s curse fall on anyone, including us or even an angel from heaven, who preaches a different kind of Good News than the one we preached to you. 9 I say again what we have said before: If anyone preaches any other Good News than the one you welcomed, let that person be cursed.

Oh, foolish Galatians! Who has cast an evil spell on you? For the meaning of Jesus Christ’s death was made as clear to you as if you had seen a picture of his death on the cross. 2 Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ. 3 How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? 4 Have you experienced[a] so much for nothing? Surely it was not in vain, was it?

5 I ask you again, does God give you the Holy Spirit and work miracles among you because you obey the law? Of course not! It is because you believe the message you heard about Christ.

6 In the same way, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.”[b] 7 The real children of Abraham, then, are those who put their faith in God.

What’s more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would declare the Gentiles to be righteous because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, “All nations will be blessed through you.”[c] 9 So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith.

10 But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.”[d] 11 So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life.”[e] 12 This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying the law that a person has life.”[f]

13 But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”[g] 14 Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised[h] Holy Spirit through faith.

I don't know about you, but that makes me wanna talk in tongues.

[Socialite]

Dear brothers and sisters,[i] here’s an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or amend an irrevocable agreement, so it is in this case. 16 God gave the promises to Abraham and his child.[j] And notice that the Scripture doesn’t say “to his children,[k]” as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says “to his child”—and that, of course, means Christ. 17 This is what I am trying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking his promise. 18 For if the inheritance could be received by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God’s promise. But God graciously gave it to Abraham as a promise.

God cared so much about His promise, that He fulfilled it in Christ, so that we could all benefit from His covenant. He took on himself all the terms of the covenant. The legal parties are He and God. We become part His "class action suit" by coming to Jesus in Faith --- then we are "hidden in Christ."