How easy is it to Lose Salvation? - Page 14

LUKE2447 · #**131** 02-04-2011, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

When sanctification becomes salvation, we are all in trouble. It's not longer, burden-less growing and learning in Christ... but it now becomes anxious, will I make it in the end, hellish living that we call religion.

lol... Let me expand on your thought process.... "when our response to the Spirit becomes death or life we are in trouble"

"when obeying God's will defines if we are his friends we are in trouble."

"when we we make faith actual faithfulness to his will like Abraham" we are in trouble"

"If we have to offer up our Isaacs for the covenant and receive te promises and considered right before God we are in trouble"

"when salvation is to them that obey we are in trouble"

"when doing his commandments give us right to the tree of life we are in trouble"

BeenThinkin · #**132** 02-04-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charnock

There is no such thing as self-righteousness. It's a myth.

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

What would you call this?

BT

LUKE2447 · #**133** 02-04-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

There you go skipping that first part of Abram's story where he was imputed righteousness. Believing God is the right response.

It's mind-boggling to suggest our record is cleared in the past, but that our record is how we are judged in the future. It's not on us, it's on Him. The cross was not limited to the past --- it extends into the present and future. Perfection doesn't keep me in covenant with Him. Faithfulness does.

let's expound on that.... not your actions of any sort to be judged unfaithful. Your point is only toward HIM DOING IT or HIS FAITHFULNESS!

which in the end is OSAS as you cannot have that and the other. Again you are contradictive.

Socialite · #**134** 02-04-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

lol... Let me expand on your thought process.... "when our response to the Spirit becomes death or life we are in trouble"

"when obeying God's will defines if we are his friends we are in trouble."

"when we we make faith actual faithfulness to his will like Abraham" we are in trouble"

"If we have to offer up our Isaacs for the covenant and receive te promises and considered right before God we are in trouble"

"when salvation is to them that obey we are in trouble"

"when doing his commandments give us right to the tree of life we are in trouble"

You have the cart ahead of the horse, Lukey.

When Grace becomes more about what we do, and less about what Christ has done... we are all in trouble! Scratch that --- we are all screwed.

Socialite · #**135** 02-04-2011, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

let's expound on that.... not your actions of any sort to be judged unfaithful. Your point is only toward HIM DOING IT or HIS FAITHFULNESS!

which in the end is OSAS as you cannot have that and the other. Again you are contradictive.

I've never agreed with OSAS, yet this is about the 20th time you've tried to label me that way. Your black and white (yes, binary) thinking is hindering you in this discussion.

Faithfulness = continuing to believe, trust, rely on... and yes continuing to obey God.

But people led of the Spirit, that are new creation, that are alive to Christ... they will obey.

LUKE2447 · #**136** 02-04-2011, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

What would you call this?

BT

I call it typical out of context meaning toeven bring it up. Read the context. The righteousness/faithful response and position before God in covenant had become as filthy rags because they turned from God to do there own will. You gain position before God by REPENTANCE which is to DO God's will.

Eze 18:20 The person who sins is the one who will die. A son will not suffer27 for his father's iniquity, and a father will not suffer28 for his son's iniquity; the righteous person will be judged according to his righteousness, and the wicked person according to his wickedness.29
Eze 18:21 "But if the wicked person turns from all the sin he has committed and observes all my statutes and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.
Eze 18:22 None of the sins he has committed will be held30 against him; because of the righteousness he has done, he will live.
Eze 18:23 Do I actually delight in the death of the wicked, declares the sovereign LORD? Do I not prefer that he turn from his wicked conduct and live?
Eze 18:24 "But if a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and practices wrongdoing according to all the abominable practices the wicked carry out, will he live? All his righteous acts will not be remembered; because of the unfaithful acts he has done and the sin he has committed, he will die.31

To turn away all your righteousness before God is meaningless before him. Your standing/robe of the covenant is filthy. This is seen in Revelations and in the parable of the wedding garment.

BeenThinkin · #**137** 02-04-2011, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

I call it typical out of context meaning toeven bring it up. Read the context. The righteousness/faithful response and position before God in covenant had become as filthy rags because they turned from God to do there own will. You gain position before God by REPENTANCE which is to DO God's will.

Eze 18:20 The person who sins is the one who will die. A son will not suffer27 for his father's iniquity, and a father will not suffer28 for his son's iniquity; the righteous person will be judged according to his righteousness, and the wicked person according to his wickedness.29
Eze 18:21 "But if the wicked person turns from all the sin he has committed and observes all my statutes and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die.
Eze 18:22 None of the sins he has committed will be held30 against him; because of the righteousness he has done, he will live.
Eze 18:23 Do I actually delight in the death of the wicked, declares the sovereign LORD? Do I not prefer that he turn from his wicked conduct and live?
Eze 18:24 "But if a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and practices wrongdoing according to all the abominable practices the wicked carry out, will he live? All his righteous acts will not be remembered; because of the unfaithful acts he has done and the sin he has committed, he will die.31

To turn away all your righteousness before God is meaningless before him. Your standing/robe of the covenant is filthy. This is seen in Revelations and in the parable of the wedding garment.

So the writer did not mean "Our righteousness" he meant something else! You are full of words that don't make sense! You might even be full of your self, reckon?

Been Thinkin

LUKE2447 · #**138** 02-04-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

I've never agreed with OSAS, yet this is about the 20th time you've tried to label me that way. Your black and white (yes, binary) thinking is hindering you in this discussion.

I can't help you argue out both sides.

Quote:

Faithfulness = continuing to believe, trust, rely on... and yes continuing to obey God.

You can't be believing while sinning. your works are of the flesh not by faith in walking after the Spirit.

If faithfulness not perfection keeps us in covenant(right standing) per you

and self righteousness is that I believe I am in right standing toward God justified/considered right by following the Spirit per you....

uhhhh LOL!

Quote:

But people led of the Spirit, that are new creation, that are alive to Christ... they will obey.

Being led of the Spirit does not mean you are obeying. The Spirit leading/compelling you out of sin is not a position of righteousness but leading to do righteousness. Being ALIVE TO is to DO his will. To not be alive TO is to do the flesh's WILL! In the end your statement should be is THEY ARE OBEYING not THEY WILL OBEY! LED OF is present action realized. Being alive TO is a present action. Which = I am obeying.

LUKE2447 · #**139** 02-04-2011, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeenThinkin

So the writer did not mean "Our righteousness" he meant something else! You are full of words that don't make sense! You might even be full of your self, reckon?

Been Thinkin

he is speaking about the state of Israel. God had his remnant but the nation as a whole fell because of overall unrighteousness toward the covenant.

No you don't understand basic context and apply it to anything we do is filthy rags. Doing the will of God is not filthy rags but your standing before God works/robe you are created to do IN covenant can become filthy. Your standing is dirty if in breech of covenant and standing. That which was righteous is now unrighteousness. As the covenant judges.

LUKE2447 · #**140** 02-04-2011, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

You have the cart ahead of the horse, Lukey.

When Grace becomes more about what we do, and less about what Christ has done... we are all in trouble! Scratch that --- we are all screwed.

grace is about his power in us to do his will and to not walk after the flesh.
Jesus made it about what we do in response to his call. If you do not take up my cross you are not worthy of my. CONDITIONS are given. It is not more about me than Christ it is about Christ in me and me following or following after the flesh and negating the leading of Christ which is enmity and unrighteousness toward the covenant.