2And, behold, there was a man named Zacchaeus, which was the chief among the publicans, and he was rich.
3And he sought to see Jesus who he was; and could not for the press, because he was little of stature.
4And he ran before, and climbed up into a sycomore tree to see him: for he was to pass that way.
5And when Jesus came to the place, he looked up, and saw him, and said unto him, Zacchaeus, make haste, and come down; for to day I must abide at thy house.
6And he made haste, and came down, and received him joyfully.
7And when they saw it, they all murmured, saying, That he was gone to be guest with a man that is a sinner.
8And Zacchaeus stood, and said unto the Lord; Behold, Lord, the half of my goods I give to the poor; and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
9And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
. . . and if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold.
9And Jesus said unto him, This day is salvation come to this house, forsomuch as he also is a son of Abraham.
. . .
Do you think Jesus saved Z because of the fourfold returning?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
Do you think Jesus saved Z because of the fourfold returning?
Do you think Jesus saved Z because he was short?
__________________ "all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
~Declaration of Independence
You have no clue what you are talking about. That church and the church board loved and revered their pastor. There was no agenda to get rid of him. Everybody there was stunned and shocked at the situation.
There are details that have come out that are slightly different than the first report but only in details. The sin is still the same and perhaps even harder to understand. No details will be posted here unless they are publicly published elsewhere as formal accusations but the details don't really matter. What does is that it was a sexual moral failure / sin and accusations of misuse of church money.
From all accounts this is a strong church who are moving forward despite their shock and dismay at this failure in leadership.
Unfortunately the church board only consist of three men! It seems to me a church running approximately 800 should have a dozen or more board members (just my opinion). I think none of the board members should be related to the pastor or each other. Shouldn't be hard in a congregation of that size.
When Bro Black resigned it was definitely a shock to many of us because we had no idea anything was even going on. To many apparently at least 100 (since that's the number of people it takes to bring a petition of no confidence) it was no shock! Well maybe that he resigned instead of fighting it. The church has not crumbled but is regrouping with the TN HQ assisting in the transition process. Every individual will process the situation in their own way but I can assure you that TB was and is loved. I've seen him handle people so lovingly and diplomatically. I've seen him protect his flock from allowing judgmental attitudes taking over in an unfortunate situation. I've heard him direct the church to not kick a person when they are down but to love them and pray for them and not talk bad about them.
I wish I could say I know what happened but I don't. I know I lost my pastor, I don't know where he is or how he's doing. My children have lost their youth pastor and his wife who from all I can gather did absolutely nothing wrong. We've lost another leadership pastor and his wife who also have no accusations of wrong doing! The original two preachers that were helping us immediately after the resignation and were expected to be with us up to six months are also gone suddenly! Time will tell how people will handle things during the process of getting a new pastor. I'm sure it won't be easy because of the size alone of the congregation it will be a challenge for any man of God especially since we lost so much of our experienced staff that could have helped a new pastor through the orientation and settling in. I know this, I feel like I've been sucker punched to the point of being disoriented in my own church. I never know who to expect to be in the pulpit and the ones that are there are strangers to me. I'm supposed to trust God to lead us through the process of finding a new pastor but since I trusted Him when I came to TPC I wonder if I have a clue as to what God's will is. I know I can trust Jesus I just question the way organized religion does things. I wonder if I've been misled to trust to much. I fight my flesh and wonder if I can even know the will of God for our lives right now. I know I'm going to keep on striving for the mark of the high calling! I know I'll pray and read the Word and for now keep still and know that He is God and wait on modern men to work through a business like process all the while praying they will use wisdom and love and the Spirit of God to make tons of decisions and probably rewrite another ton of policies to avoid a similar situation and pray a hedge of protection over my family to protect us while we seek His face! I know this is long but I guess it's my way of working it out in my mind.
I hear your pain coming through. God will guide you. Keep the faith and trust Him. The youth pastor and the associate pastor should not have been let go. That was very unfortunate for the church. It has devastated unnecessarily three families, the youth they pastored and the wisdom and and guidance that the associate pastor could have given. That is a shame. They are blameless and innocent of any wrong doing. Hope the board doesn't have their own agenda. That will be a disaster for the church. It is my understanding the board asked the two men that were there to leave, they (the board) could handle the transition. These men to my knowledge are not ministers or pastors. Much prayer is needed for that not to become a runaway train. Praying for you, your church and all involved.
Unfortunately the church board only consist of three men! It seems to me a church running approximately 800 should have a dozen or more board members (just my opinion). I think none of the board members should be related to the pastor or each other. Shouldn't be hard in a congregation of that size.
When Bro Black resigned it was definitely a shock to many of us because we had no idea anything was even going on. To many apparently at least 100 (since that's the number of people it takes to bring a petition of no confidence) it was no shock! Well maybe that he resigned instead of fighting it. The church has not crumbled but is regrouping with the TN HQ assisting in the transition process. Every individual will process the situation in their own way but I can assure you that TB was and is loved. I've seen him handle people so lovingly and diplomatically. I've seen him protect his flock from allowing judgmental attitudes taking over in an unfortunate situation. I've heard him direct the church to not kick a person when they are down but to love them and pray for them and not talk bad about them.
I wish I could say I know what happened but I don't. I know I lost my pastor, I don't know where he is or how he's doing. My children have lost their youth pastor and his wife who from all I can gather did absolutely nothing wrong. We've lost another leadership pastor and his wife who also have no accusations of wrong doing! The original two preachers that were helping us immediately after the resignation and were expected to be with us up to six months are also gone suddenly! Time will tell how people will handle things during the process of getting a new pastor. I'm sure it won't be easy because of the size alone of the congregation it will be a challenge for any man of God especially since we lost so much of our experienced staff that could have helped a new pastor through the orientation and settling in. I know this, I feel like I've been sucker punched to the point of being disoriented in my own church. I never know who to expect to be in the pulpit and the ones that are there are strangers to me. I'm supposed to trust God to lead us through the process of finding a new pastor but since I trusted Him when I came to TPC I wonder if I have a clue as to what God's will is. I know I can trust Jesus I just question the way organized religion does things. I wonder if I've been misled to trust to much. I fight my flesh and wonder if I can even know the will of God for our lives right now. I know I'm going to keep on striving for the mark of the high calling! I know I'll pray and read the Word and for now keep still and know that He is God and wait on modern men to work through a business like process all the while praying they will use wisdom and love and the Spirit of God to make tons of decisions and probably rewrite another ton of policies to avoid a similar situation and pray a hedge of protection over my family to protect us while we seek His face! I know this is long but I guess it's my way of working it out in my mind.
The best advice that I can give you is TRUST GOD! And, you are right, hopefully, a better structure for business can be put in place for the future.
Keep focused on God and seek him and you, your family and the church will be fine.
__________________
Master of Science in Applied Disgruntled Religious Theorist Wrangling
PhD in Petulant Tantrum Quelling
Dean of the School of Hard Knocks
The best advice that I can give you is TRUST GOD! And, you are right, hopefully, a better structure for business can be put in place for the future.
Keep focused on God and seek him and you, your family and the church will be fine.
I believe a lot of the criticism has been obfuscated by some here. We discussed should a fallen Pastor be re-instated to his office and the result were some accusing others of saying the man is beyond forgiveness
We discussed issues like money and suddenly everyone is labeled a pastor hater by a Pastor.
I think part of our problem is a culture of "Pastor worship" for some. By that I mean, the Pastor was elevated SO high when the focus should have been exclusively on God. People have a hard time moving on when the Pastor falls, when he lets them down. I know people who get bent out of shape if the Pastor did not shake their hand enough. Both the congregation and the Pastor are responsible for letting it get that far.
The Pastor is a man too and subject to pride, being put in such a position of power and adoration just adds to that.
I've heard of congregations falling apart because a beloved Pastor started a new work in another city and had a new pastor take over. Some even left that church to follow him to the new city.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I believe a lot of the criticism has been obfuscated by some here. We discussed should a fallen Pastor be re-instated to his office and the result were some accusing others of saying the man is beyond forgiveness
We discussed issues like money and suddenly everyone is labeled a pastor hater by a Pastor.
I think part of our problem is a culture of "Pastor worship" for some. By that I mean, the Pastor was elevated SO high when the focus should have been exclusively on God. People have a hard time moving on when the Pastor falls, when he lets them down. I know people who get bent out of shape if the Pastor did not shake their hand enough. Both the congregation and the Pastor are responsible for letting it get that far.
The Pastor is a man too and subject to pride, being put in such a position of power and adoration just adds to that.
I've heard of congregations falling apart because a beloved Pastor started a new work in another city and had a new pastor take over. Some even left that church to follow him to the new city.
Don't know who you had reference to (the bolded) but please make sure it's not me. I do disagree with many statements made against the Pastor but I don't think I went as far as you stated above. If I did please show it to me and I will repent and ask your forgiveness.
I just simply think maybe the following scripture might apply. Romans 13:7 ¶ Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. (And the saint is due honor, too.)
Romans 12 speaks about the body and the ministry. And it would seem that some think the "head," and I hesitate to use that part of the body, is of no more importance than the big toe. The big toe will not function without the head being in operation. And yes, there are some Pastors who would be qualified as having "the big head syndrome!"
Just thinkin"
Been Thinkin
__________________
"From the time you're born, 'til you ride in the hearse, there ain't nothing bad that couldn't be worse!"
LIFE: Some days you're the dog and some days you're the hydrant!
I have ... Hippopotomonstrosesquipedaliophobia! The fear of long words.
"Prediction is very hard, especially about the future." - Yogi Berra
"I love the man that can smile in trouble, that can gather strength from distress, and grow brave in reflection." - Thomas Paine
Hybrid Mode
