Prominent Memphis Area Pastor Resigns

[Tlswift2009]

Originally Posted by CC1

I don't presume to answer for Elder Epley....well, ok I do a bit. LOL!!!

I think it is a safe bet to say that TB's church allowed short sleeves, the use of video in services and in the home along with what I am sure are many more violations of the con and ultra con rule book!

The two I mentione alone take TB's church out of the conservative column for folks like the good Elder.

The churchworld has gotten so FAR OFF from what God intends to see in our spiritual lives: AN INNER TRANSFORMATION AND REGENRATION OF THAT INNER MAN; instead, we find so much of this man made**in house**church rules that has panned out to only make God's people 2-FOLD, and more child of the devil {HYPOCRICIES} than of righteousness in so many ways: focus, attachment, and affection in the wrong place......God's word says, "the soul that SINNETH; it shall die"; not all of this mess about whether your shirt sleeve is long/short; exact measurement of a woman's dress, or what color(s) you wear: this is utter foolishness, and while people are trying to cater to the whims of these Pastor's personal church/doctrinal agandas; you've got Pastors, and leadership in hidden-secret sin(s)...this is what hurt TPC; not what you look like, or what you wear-the sin(s) of man starts within the heart; not upon the length of your shirt!!!

[Tlswift2009]

Originally Posted by golive4Him2

I've been in an ultra conservative church and I've been in TPC. Please allow me to make a point that many may have forgotten. Before TB resigned and none of us really knew any indiscretions in his ministry, lets just say before the storm. To the average attendee you had no idea in a church of this size, who was a long time member, who was renewed recently who were visitors! Sure you had the elder women that retain their "classic" uncut, teased, pouffe buns and swirls and yes you had young girls with hair long enough to sit on hanging in glorious curls over conservative neck and hem lines. But in reality a church that runs anywhere from 800 - 1200 didn't get that big because they don't care about people, they have to have some major out reach going on. They definitely have a place and purpose for young people to have all kinds of activities, plays, banquets, quizzing, play days, youth nights, lock ins etc... There were enough people in that congregation to have break out activities for senior citizens, young marrieds, youth, widows etc... It is and was a wonderful thing. Some want to label churches as conservative or liberal so let's kick this idea around. Yes I believe most people have TVs, I've heard TB preach/teach that there is no way to get around the uncut hair scriptures. I know of TB standing in the pulpit and expressing himself very clearly that when someone in church made mistakes we were to shut up (quit gossiping), let God handle it and pray for restoration and healing. I've seen the application to join the choir, it has the UPCI basic rules attached. If in leadership you signed off that you'd follow the guidelines one of which was no going to the movies. Now if 3 mths later a movie came out on DVD there didn't seem to be a problem watching it at home. This was of course if it was family friendly no "bad stuff". We were handled as grown ups and given recommendations on Pentecostal behavior but I personally was never policed, never called in on the carpet or questioned about what I did and didn't do. I was not in leadership. Now let's say you scan the congregation, you are going to see skirts shorter than below the knee, hmmm is it a teen of a member rebelling against their mom, did the family get rushed and the girl grew taller since she wore it last and she's embarrassed but at least she came? Is it a visitor, is it a girl that is forced to come by parents but really claims to no "in church" status? Women's hair is everywhere from low buzz to knee length, up down and all around. Well same thing applies, new, member, visitor, drug in against their will lol etc... Shirts? I've never seen arm pits, I've mostly noticed the men's attire seems to lean towards very old fashioned suit, slacks, button up shirt, and tie, there are a lot of long sleeve button downs under sweater vests too! Facial hair is frowned upon and I don't see any leaders active in positions with it. The one exception to this is several years ago there was a month or two where some men grew their facial hair out for the easter or christmas program. Having said all this let me assure anyone reading that when I walked into the doors of TPC I had never felt the amount of acceptance, love and welcoming. I'd had other preachers beat on the pulpit and scream about gossip, TB just simply stated "something is going on that many of you know tid bits about but you are not to talk about it you are to pray and don't make me have to call you into a meeting because I will do it. He was respected and honestly the situation almost always died down and no more attention was focused on it. I've never seen any other church pour so much time, energy, money and prayer into the youth. It's awesome. I expect that with any new pastor the church is going to roll along with the same momentum that it has as far as most things go. I'm sure we'll have adjustments to what "standards" and expectations the new pastor will expect but liberal? I don't see it, conservative? I think mostly yes with a few exceptions. The TV issue in my opinion should be on the same level as radio or any other form of information and entertainment, change the channel if you need to, don't get obsessed with it and use common sense. When it boils down to the bones of it TPC is so large you can hide in the congregation, you can rest spiritually, any one and everyone is welcome, leadership is held to a standard and if you are ready and willing there is always something you can do to help in the church.

In my observation and experience with being saved since 1982, and pastoring since 1989; although God has guidelines for Christians being modest in dresswear/apparrel; the ball is oftentimes dropped when it comes to emphasizing that the inner man needs to experience a continued spiritual transformation, and regeneration:

ROMANS 12:1-2..." I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye PRESENT your bodies a living sacrifice, HOLY, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be NOT conformed to this world: but be ye TRANSFORMED by the RENEWING of your MIND {SPIRIT}, that ye may prove what is that GOOD, and ACCEPTABLEe, and PERFECT, will of God".

When we put the biblical emphasis on these passages of scriptures; you'll get a perfecting {maturing} child of God; God's way-too MUCH emphasis upon the Pastor's/Organization's will for God's people. In my experience; there's a lack of consecration of a communal prayer life in the Pastor's/leadership life; so; they bind the people to a bunch of modern day**Mosaic**type of rules/laws-policies; the people become more attuned to the rules than to God's word. I've had a better; most effective ministry through my devotion to a consecrative prayer, fasting lifestyle; I've seen a better quality of growth and godly conviction to live out God's word in His people, and I've seen many made hypocrits through all of these church rules with out the convictions tha should be FIRST, and most important: conservative??? I prefer godly morals abscribed by His Holy word....Just my experience, and what has/does work in my leadership, which in many aspects exceeded those that I came from under in leadership...A CONSECRATIVE-COMMUNAL PRAYER LIFE WORKED GREAT THINGS IN MY MINISTRY; SO I STICK TO WHAT I KNOW WORKS, AND GOD'S PEOPLE WILL EARNESTLY ABIDE BY NECESSARY GODLY, MODEST ADORNMENT...

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Tlswift2009

In my observation and experience with being saved since 1982, and pastoring since 1989; although God has guidelines for Christians being modest in dresswear/apparrel; the ball is oftentimes dropped when it comes to emphasizing that the inner man needs to experience a continued spiritual transformation, and regeneration:

ROMANS 12:1-2..." I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye PRESENT your bodies a living sacrifice, HOLY, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be NOT conformed to this world: but be ye TRANSFORMED by the RENEWING of your MIND {SPIRIT}, that ye may prove what is that GOOD, and ACCEPTABLEe, and PERFECT, will of God".

When we put the biblical emphasis on these passages of scriptures; you'll get a perfecting {maturing} child of God; God's way-too MUCH emphasis upon the Pastor's/Organization's will for God's people. In my experience; there's a lack of consecration of a communal prayer life in the Pastor's/leadership life; so; they bind the people to a bunch of modern day**Mosaic**type of rules/laws-policies; the people become more attuned to the rules than to God's word. I've had a better; most effective ministry through my devotion to a consecrative prayer, fasting lifestyle; I've seen a better quality of growth and godly conviction to live out God's word in His people, and I've seen many made hypocrits through all of these church rules with out the convictions tha should be FIRST, and most important: conservative??? I prefer godly morals abscribed by His Holy word....Just my experience, and what has/does work in my leadership, which in many aspects exceeded those that I came from under in leadership...A CONSECRATIVE-COMMUNAL PRAYER LIFE WORKED GREAT THINGS IN MY MINISTRY; SO I STICK TO WHAT I KNOW WORKS, AND GOD'S PEOPLE WILL EARNESTLY ABIDE BY NECESSARY GODLY, MODEST ADORNMENT...

I am so happy for you. I never heard any conservatives preach on inward holiness or prayer or dedication they were too busy measuring sleeves. All the libs I have known spent hours in prayer and in humble dedication to God mostly fasting that is why all liberals are skinny. NEVER has a liberal preacher or saint failed morally. This is good to know. I would post more but I am busy thinking of some more rules to put on God's people to make their lives miserable. Only ultra cons like Swaggart & Bakker really fail morally. I guess I better stop so you can get back to that all day prayer meeting remember NO lunch today.:heehee hee

[CC1]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I am so happy for you. I never heard any conservatives preach on inward holiness or prayer or dedication they were too busy measuring sleeves. All the libs I have known spent hours in prayer and in humble dedication to God mostly fasting that is why all liberals are skinny. NEVER has a liberal preacher or saint failed morally. This is good to know. I would post more but I am busy thinking of some more rules to put on God's people to make their lives miserable. Only ultra cons like Swaggart & Bakker really fail morally. I guess I better stop so you can get back to that all day prayer meeting remember NO lunch today.:heehee hee

LOL!!!

[canam]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I am so happy for you. I never heard any conservatives preach on inward holiness or prayer or dedication they were too busy measuring sleeves. All the libs I have known spent hours in prayer and in humble dedication to God mostly fasting that is why all liberals are skinny. NEVER has a liberal preacher or saint failed morally. This is good to know. I would post more but I am busy thinking of some more rules to put on God's people to make their lives miserable. Only ultra cons like Swaggart & Bakker really fail morally. I guess I better stop so you can get back to that all day prayer meeting remember NO lunch today.:heehee hee

sarcasm meter ...active ! )

[webe123]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Your post is full of contadictions. You post, people respond. To paraphrase Kobe Bryant, time for you to put on your big boy/girl pants. Last I looked this thread is opened for public remarks. You opened yourself up to scrutiny with the if you don't like it leave attitude in responde to Ferd's common sense post.

Instead of making your point with scripture, you resort to personal attacks. Since you can't respond to the Biblical validity of gossip or opining about other people's sin.

Pointing out what the Bible says about busybodies and gossip isn't judging.p

Pointing out what the Bible says about healing isn't self righteous.

Pointing out your obvious disdain for Biblical protocol isn't judging.
You can't Biblically explain your support of adding fuel to the fire. The only option you have is to attack the messenger. All bark, no bite.

You have to figure out if your opinions matter more than Biblical principles. With rants like " I have a right to my opinion" and "Don't let them silence you", you made your choice.

tv1a YOU was the one attacking that started attacking ME on a public forum, and I will not stand for it.

And you HIDING behind the NOTION of "pointing out" things..... now makes you a judge and jury? What gives you the right to judge other people? That I will not stand for either.

And you ARE judging them, weather or not you want to admit that fact makes no difference.

Simply "Pointing out" something is far different from the attack you made on me a few posts back, so get your facts straight!

It is time for YOU to quit trolling for a fight, when you cannot even seem to grasp the idea of a different point of view!

Don't like me posting in this thread? TOUGH! Get over it, because I am going to do it weather or not you like it!

You tell others to stop posting, while you go on and post in a thread you say you despise? What does that say about you?

For all the idiotic finger pointing you have been doing at me, there is three fingers pointing right back at you.

So give it a rest!

[Steve Epley]

STOP right this minute only we cons have the right to be nasty and demeaning. It is our job to do that while we are sewing more material to our sleeves. This is our corner go join that brother at his prayer and fasting meeting today.

[webe123]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

STOP right this minute only we cons have the right to be nasty and demeaning. It is our job to do that while we are sewing more material to our sleeves. This is our corner go join that brother at his prayer and fasting meeting today.

LOL!

[Admin]

Personal attacks will stop or this thread will be closed and warnings or infractions given.
We can discuss things calmly without getting personal.

[Fiyahstarter]

Originally Posted by Sherri

Totally depends on the size of the church and the state of the finances. There is no set amount that would be feasible for all churches.

I don't think it should TOTALLY depend on the size of the church and the state of the finances. Surely there is a ceiling???