Would you report an Illegal?

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Let's have a hypothetical then, just for fun. If a man, woman and child knocked on our door and said they had no food, we would give them some, regardless of their citizenship. Against the law or not.

What of people who hid Jews? Or helped them when they were being persecuted by the government? What of missionaries who sneak into other countries to preach the Gospel? And no, I'm not comparing the immigrant plight to that of Jews...I'm saying that there is something to be said for doing the right thing, regardless of what law enforcement would prefer.

We are to obey the laws of the land, but when it comes to a question of legal vs. moral, choose moral. There is something in there about...obeying God rather than man.

Agreed again!

[Rico]

Originally Posted by crakjak

Until the feds, close the borders and began enforcing the law, instead of resisting cities that try to protect their citizens and property values from the invasion, you can forget what individual citizens can do, to stop the flow.

You have to live in the border states to get a true feel of the magnitude of this invasion, we are being overrun. I am not against immigrates or Hispanics, I am against the selection enforcement of our laws, to accommodate the global intentions of the money brokers of the world.

It's a conspiracy.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

PP, they have the desire...and would if they could....the system isn't set up that way, that's all. There are sound ways to fix this situation and part of it includes fining them.

What is wrong and dishonorable about them sending money to their family? Would you like them to send it to you instead....many of them pay taxes with a tax payer ID number....so what's it to you what they do with their money. If you really are upset, why dont you crack down on the businesses that hire them....why dont you scream from the top of your lungs regarding these businesses....why aren't you demonstrating in front of their offices?

Oh right, some need their lawn cut, their gardens maintained, their deck built, their food prepared, their laundry done, their house cleaned....oh yeah, I forgot.

Phooey J-Roc, that is a convenient excuse and you know it. I have a Filipino cousin who went through the process. It took her years but she did it.

These guys don't want to go through the process. Many of them have no desire for U.S. citizenship unless we give it to them on a silver platter. I have a real problem with that.

Further, there aren't sound ways to fix the sytem because some folks DON'T WANT IT FIXED!!!!! They would rather turn their heads and make big bucks by siphoning off American jobs.

The bottom line is they are here illegally - period.

They are criminals.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by COOPER

But all Illegals are dis-respecting US citizens. The are lawless and rebels against US Government.

When you get back... my friend Coop... and you are my friend, just some more long winded thoughts from a "geezer."

The three words bolded above -

all: It is almost never accurate to say "all" or "always" when dealing with people. One of my closest friends is *ahem* new to these shores and is trying to support a wife and kids back home. He is the very epitome of respectfulness and always a gentleman despite the separation from home and family. He and his wife have a plan (she works full time there, but he was unable to find work for years). They're saving money and working toward a brighter hope for themselves and their children, whom they hope to be able to send to college.

lawless: Under Common Law, to be lawless (or an 'outlaw') meant that you could be robbed, assaulted and even killed without any penalty. This was a sanction placed upon individuals by the govt usually for political or religious "crimes." I'm certain you did not intend this antiquated meaning.

I think you meant that the "illegals" are "lawless" in the sense that since they're here illegally, everything they do is "illegal." Not so. In fact there are illegal aliens in the U.S. and within the Judicial system who are appealing cases, seeking clemency, asylum or in some other bureaucratic condition and they are perfectly "lawful" despite being here "illegally." There are 1001 different legal niceties to these cases, and many that you would no doubt be sympathetic toward if you knew all the details.

rebels: There is a movement (or movements) whose stated purpose is to secede from the United States and form a new country- neither U.S. nor Mexico, but a new land, often referred to as Azteca. These folks have accurately deduced that they have little common cause with the Mexican power establishment that has only recently begun to come out of feudalism. The way to best resist their efforts is to continue forward with the American success story.

One of the saddest stories to come out of WW2 was the treatment of the "displaced persons." Those who found new homes in the West were truly fortunate and they would be the first to tell you that. Others who were "repatriated" to their "homes" were slaughtered by the millions. Perhaps 10's of millions. To this day there are people in Eastern Europe who curse American and British policies that led to human suffering on a massive scale.

Human migration is a tough issue to try and sort out. 26 Million Germans were forced from their homes by the creation of the "new Poland and the expansion of the USSR. 3 million Greeks were forced out of the homes that their ancestors had lived in for at least 5,000 years to placate the Turks.

When Israel was created it looked like a good patch of desert where 2 million+ Jews could be offloaded. In 1948 the Arab countries of the region added another million Jews who were forced from their homes that they had lived in since Roman times. But now those same Arabs are saying, "Wait, never mind - kick the Jews out again!"

And now we have this vast area in the America SW, and other regions of North America where there was once desert and hostile indigenous peoples. Through the hard work of displaced peoples from Europe this land has been made to sort of bloom. Whether we can keep it up after the aquifers have dried up is anybody's guess. But here we are.

In the increasingly global world we have to rethink some of the ways we think about nation states. Just like ducal fiefdoms had to give way for something more efficient, the nation state may be getting a bit outdated. So, as we look toward a new world ahead, what kind of world do you want it to be? Personally, I want all of them "brown people" and "white people" (or whatever color) of the future to raise a glass and toast the Americans who made their success possible.

I guess I don't really disagree with you, it's just that we need to get those same illegals to see things the way we do. We have to win them over by showing them how their own best interests can be better served. And one way is to encourage the political evolution that is going on in Mexico itself. We need to engage them more, not herd them around the continent.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Let's have a hypothetical then, just for fun. If a man, woman and child knocked on our door and said they had no food, we would give them some, regardless of their citizenship. Against the law or not.

What of people who hid Jews? Or helped them when they were being persecuted by the government? What of missionaries who sneak into other countries to preach the Gospel? And no, I'm not comparing the immigrant plight to that of Jews...I'm saying that there is something to be said for doing the right thing, regardless of what law enforcement would prefer.

We are to obey the laws of the land, but when it comes to a question of legal vs. moral, choose moral. There is something in there about...obeying God rather than man.

That is a red herring Miss B and you know it.

No One is harming these folks. No one is making them come here.

They are disobeying legal and moral law. Are you telling me God is pleased with their involvement in unforced illegal activity?

[J-Roc]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

Phooey J-Roc, that is a convenient excuse and you know it. I have a Filipino cousin who went through the process. It took her years but she did it.

These guys don't want to go through the process. Many of them have no desire for U.S. citizenship unless we give it to them on a silver platter. I have a real problem with that.

Further, there aren't sound ways to fix the sytem because some folks DON'T WANT IT FIXED!!!!! They would rather turn their heads and make big bucks by siphoning off American jobs.

The bottom line is they are here illegally - period.

They are criminals.

Some of your colleagues in your fellowship that don't pay proper taxes are criminals too....don't see you making a stink about it.

[Rico]

Originally Posted by Berkeley

I'm all for people entering this land in a lawful manner. But, turn in an illegal. Noway. They do the jobs that I don't want to do. Ha. Coop, I'd like to see you pick squash all summer. It'd break your back. I tried it for a day just to see what their working environment is like. I didn't last half the day.

You are right about that, Berk. What the government needs to do is find a way to give them work permits or something.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

That is a red herring Miss B and you know it.

No One is harming these folks. No one is making them come here.

They are disobeying legal and moral law. Are you telling me God is pleased with their involvement in unforced illegal activity?

No. I'm telling you that our perspective should be more about which of our responses is more pleasing to God.

I probably wouldn't make a good police officer.

You're right...it's a red herring. But...most of us argue principles rather than specifics, in the meantime, we should also remember to live by them.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by J-Roc

Some of your colleagues in your fellowship that don't pay proper taxes are criminals too....don't see you making a stink about it.

Of course not ... they speak English.

[Nahum]

To me, this issue is one of patriotism.

I don't like the idea of foreign entities invading our land, raiding our economic system, and rioting in our streets for more.