First the AG, next the UPC???

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Thad

This is what happens when a church becomes all inclusive or NON denomiational. you have to start appeasing all camps, all backgrounds, and all taste and styles. It becomes a people pleaing business/

Over 70% of AG has never spoken in tongues- and That is THEIR statistics!!

This from an organization that SOLE reason for their existance was HGB. Less than 100 years and here they are. I am afraid some sectors of Pentecost are following their steps.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

This is what the new breed of PCI mush is pushing for.

I disagree. I think the new breed of PCI is not moving away from the HGB. I think that we are moving toward more than just the HGB. I have heard it preached the HGB can take away every problem. I have seem marriages restored after a HG outpour in a service. But I have also see problems exist after the same out pouring. There is soooo much more to preach than just the HG. I am not discounting the HG at all. But often times people preach HG, HG, HG, and leave out the making good choices part. The time investment part, the self-submission to God. Why? Because some PAJCers, not all, but some, prush the HG then rules and regulations in the next breath. And often times there is not any room given for personal growth. It is almost as if God is not allowed to speak and lead his people because the Pastor does the leading of "his" people. I am sorry but I disagree with you, PP. You are a great man, but I just do not see that we "new breed of PCI" are trying to make everything legal. There is always the rest of the story...

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I disagree. I think the new breed of PCI is not moving away from the HGB. I think that we are moving toward more than just the HGB. I have heard it preached the HGB can take away every problem. I have seem marriages restored after a HG outpour in a service. But I have also see problems exist after the same out pouring. There is soooo much more to preach than just the HG. I am not discounting the HG at all. But often times people preach HG, HG, HG, and leave out the making good choices part. The time investment part, the self-submission to God. Why? Because some PAJCers, not all, but some, prush the HG then rules and regulations in the next breath. And often times there is not any room given for personal growth. It is almost as if God is not allowed to speak and lead his people because the Pastor does the leading of "his" people. I am sorry but I disagree with you, PP. You are a great man, but I just do not see that we "new breed of PCI" are trying to make everything legal. There is always the rest of the story...

JT, dude, I didn't even know you considered yourself PCI.

I disagree with that theology, but highly repect you anyway.

I will say there are some who have no intention of preaching HGB, as it is embarrassing to them.

[Jack Shephard]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

JT, dude, I didn't even know you considered yourself PCI.

I disagree with that theology, but highly repect you anyway.

I will say there are some who have no intention of preaching HGB, as it is embarrassing to them.

I may fall more on the side of PCI than anything I guess, though I was raised very firm PAJC. I know that not everyone sees eye to eye on these things. That it the beauty about a forum, at a small scale, or a fellowship, at a larger scale. There is a place for varying ideals. I do agree that there are people out there that was once in the UPC or other One-God organizations that have gotten far away from the roots. But at the same time I think that the UPC and other have gotten away from the roots since the day of the merger. I know that Dan and others may be firm in what they say. Though I have talked to Dan and some others that hold the PCI mindset, these men love the HGB. They love it. But maybe because the PCIers and PAJCers do not always see things the same way it seems as if they do not care at all. May be I am wrong. Seems liek we are both looking at the same 'coin' from different vantage points....again I may be wrong. But I respect you as much as my Bishop. You are great man of intergity and a great man to follow.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by JTULLOCK

I may fall more on the side of PCI than anything I guess, though I was raised very firm PAJC. I know that not everyone sees eye to eye on these things. That it the beauty about a forum, at a small scale, or a fellowship, at a larger scale. There is a place for varying ideals. I do agree that there are people out there that was once in the UPC or other One-God organizations that have gotten far away from the roots. But at the same time I think that the UPC and other have gotten away from the roots since the day of the merger. I know that Dan and others may be firm in what they say. Though I have talked to Dan and some others that hold the PCI mindset, these men love the HGB. They love it. But maybe because the PCIers and PAJCers do not always see things the same way it seems as if they do not care at all. May be I am wrong. Seems liek we are both looking at the same 'coin' from different vantage points....again I may be wrong. But I respect you as much as my Bishop. You are great man of intergity and a great man to follow.

You are very kind!

[NLYP]

Originally Posted by bdlooney

I visited with my Bishop that I grew up under this weekend. He is a pastor of pastors. He is a part of the UPC and pastored the same church 47 years.

He is almost 80 years old and was a 35 year old Assembly of God evangelist when he received the revelation of the mighty God in Christ. Years ago, he was personally at the AG General Conference and with his own eyes and ears saw and heard the grayheads of the AG plead with the conference to hold the line on standards of holiness. The conference would not listen and history has revealed the outcome of that decision.

He is not UC but preaches very straight and always been principle and relationship driven and not rules based. He said that if the people would abide by just what resolution 4 allows then there is not much cause for concern but he knows that it is merely a foothold and that it will not stop at #4.

He wondered aloud, "I saw the compromise of one organization, I guess I may live to see the compromise of another."

Could it be that with the entrance of #4 this could be the start of the end for the UPC? It took the AG more than a few years to get where it is today. So it may not be this year or next but in 50 years what will the UPC look like? Could Thad be speculating about a merger of the UPC and the AG?

God Forbid!!

[revrandy]

I think most folks become who they hang out with or accepts them... seems that way anyways...over time....

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Thad

This is what happens when a church becomes all inclusive or NON denomiational. you have to start appeasing all camps, all backgrounds, and all taste and styles. It becomes a people pleaing business/

Over 70% of AG has never spoken in tongues- and That is THEIR statistics!!

From my discussions with AoG friends and reading some of their mags it seems that it's more of a change in fundamental theology than anything else.

More and more are "Evangelical" in their salvational theology and so because of that change of mind you see also a change of preaching and practice.

There are "gay" "churches" that preach HGB and are more "Pentecostal" than the AoG, in general. I don't think holiness standards have anything to do with the move away from HGB and "Pentecostal style," it's a change in belief and theology.

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by revrandy

I think most folks become who they hang out with or accepts them... seems that way anyways...over time....

This is very true, and is a reason I have the present sig line.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Thad

This is what happens when a church becomes all inclusive or NON denomiational. you have to start appeasing all camps, all backgrounds, and all taste and styles. It becomes a people pleaing business/

Over 70% of AG has never spoken in tongues- and That is THEIR statistics!!

AG doesn't speak in tongues.