First the AG, next the UPC???

[OneAccord]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

I don't know what the "new breed of PCI mush" is, not do I know what they (or it) is "pushing for", but what I see in this "new breed" is a renewed emphasis on the Baptism of the Holy Ghost, with less emphasis on doctrinal issues, which seems to have gotten us exactly nowhere. The 21st Century and we are still debating the in's and out's of water baptism. The role of women in Christian ministry. The varied veiws of "standards", The opposing views of the Oneness of the Godhead. To TV or not TV. The exact things that divided the early church seems to keep us divided. What the NEW BREED of Apostolic Christians (IMO) stands for is this:

Hbr 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Hbr 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

This NEW BREED still believes in Repentance, water baptism in Jesus name and the baptism of the Holy Ghost. They still believe we are made holy through the Blood of Jesus Christ. They still believe that Jesus is God manifested in the flesh. And they still believe in the operation of the gifts of the Spirit. And, they still believe in the 2nd coming of the Lord.

If you believe that, say AMEN!

[bdlooney]

AMEN!

THAT'S RIGHT!

PREACH IT!

...PRAISE BREAK!....

[TRFrance]

From what I've been told, the AG in its early days, was once a very conservative denomination, and in some ways was like a Trinitarian version of the UPC, as far as upholding certain standards, and the necessity of the Holy Ghost are concerned.

I see how they've crumbled now to become a shell of their former selves, to the point I can barely consider them "pentecostal" any more.

The conservatives and ultra-cons might be a bit heavy handed sometimes, but in the end, I think they're doing it for the right reason. I'd hate to see, one day down the line, the UPC become a watered-down shell of its former self (like the AG has become)... and that's just what would happen if we were to let some of the more liberal elements among us have their way.

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

From what I've been told, the AG in its early days, was once a very conservative denomination, and in some ways was like a Trinitarian version of the UPC, as far as upholding certain standards, and the necessity of the Holy Ghost are concerned.

I see how they've crumbled now to become a shell of their former selves, to the point I can barely consider them "pentecostal" any more.

The conservatives and ultra-cons might be a bit heavy handed sometimes, but in the end, I think they're doing it for the right reason. I'd hate to see, one day down the line, the UPC become a watered-down shell of its former self (like the AG has become)... and that's just what would happen if we were to let some of the more liberal elements among us have their way.

I would disagree with this statement, unless you're just referring to standards. Their youth camps are VERY Pentecostal, with old time altar services, kids receiving the Holy Ghost, etc. I went to a conference where they were running the aisles, dancing (shockamoo - old fashioned kind), etc. recently. They were definitely acting more Pentecostal than lots of UPC churches I've been in, as far as worship.

[tv1a]

Preachers preach Biblical holiness instead in those events instead of random subjective definitions of holiness.

Originally Posted by Sherri

I would disagree with this statement, unless you're just referring to standards. Their youth camps are VERY Pentecostal, with old time altar services, kids receiving the Holy Ghost, etc. I went to a conference where they were running the aisles, dancing (shockamoo - old fashioned kind), etc. recently. They were definitely acting more Pentecostal than lots of UPC churches I've been in, as far as worship.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by Ms. LPW

What this proves, is that God doesn't look at organizations and names.. but he'll send people to where they'll hear what they need to hear. It doesn't negate the Oneness of God, the necessity for baptism in Jesus Name or the infilling of the Holy Ghost. I'm thankful they had someplace to go to hear more.

Don't miss the word was: "...go to the house of God, and the men of God will instruct you in what to do". It doesn't negate anything, but if does show that God considers some to be HIS that many OPs do not.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

(from a September 2006 news release by the Assemblies of God entitled "Pentecostal Discipleship - a desperate need in the AG ")


"During the annual Assemblies of God General Presbytery meeting held this past August in Springfield, Missouri, statistics were presented that revealed an alarming trend in the Assemblies of God that brought immediate action.

According to AG Assistant General Superintendent Charles Crabtree, last year only 25 percent of new converts followed Christ in water baptism, with only 20 percent receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

“If we continue this trend,” Crabtree states, “in 10 years, we will have a very small percentage of Pentecostals in the Assemblies of God.”
...

I wonder what percentage of the first century converts were water baptized and what percentage received the HGB (Holy Ghost Baptism).

After Jesus rose from the dead, He was seen at one time by over 500 believers. Many of these were still alive 25 years later when the Apostle Paul mentions them in 1 Cor. 15:6. However, only about 120 believers were gathered together on the Day of Pentecost and received the HGB (compare Acts 1:14-15 with Acts 2:1-4). There is no record of when or if the 380 other believers received the HGB. 120 out of 500 is a little less than 25 percent.

We do read that about 3000 accepted the Word preached by Peter on that day of Pentecost (May 28, AD 30) and were water baptized (probably self-immersed in the mikveh sites at the Temple) but there is no record as to whether or not these 3000 received the HGB.

Going on through the Book of Acts there are about 20 accounts of folks receiving and accepting the Gospel message and in most cases there is no mention as to whether or not they were baptized in water and/or baptized in the Spirit.

Maybe 25 percent of Christians receiving the HGB fits the pattern of the early church in the Book of Acts.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by bdlooney

I visited with my Bishop that I grew up under this weekend. He is a pastor of pastors. He is a part of the UPC and pastored the same church 47 years.

He is almost 80 years old and was a 35 year old Assembly of God evangelist when he received the revelation of the mighty God in Christ. Years ago, he was personally at the AG General Conference and with his own eyes and ears saw and heard the grayheads of the AG plead with the conference to hold the line on standards of holiness. The conference would not listen and history has revealed the outcome of that decision.

He is not UC but preaches very straight and always been principle and relationship driven and not rules based. He said that if the people would abide by just what resolution 4 allows then there is not much cause for concern but he knows that it is merely a foothold and that it will not stop at #4.

He wondered aloud, "I saw the compromise of one organization, I guess I may live to see the compromise of another."

Could it be that with the entrance of #4 this could be the start of the end for the UPC? It took the AG more than a few years to get where it is today. So it may not be this year or next but in 50 years what will the UPC look like? Could Thad be speculating about a merger of the UPC and the AG?

God Forbid!!

Oh please...for real. The rise and fall of the UPCI is not based on RES 4. Ya'll need to get a life

Get real!

[nahkoe]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Oh please...for real. The rise and fall of the UPCI is not based on RES 4. Ya'll need to get a life

Get real!

I don't think the "fall" of the AoG has anything much to do with TV. I know what my opinions are, but I'll keep those to myself for now.

I also don't think the organization has fallen. I think there are some very good preachers, some very good churches, and some that aren't so much. Sounds pretty much like any other org.

[Rhoni]

Originally Posted by nahkoe

I don't think the "fall" of the AoG has anything much to do with TV. I know what my opinions are, but I'll keep those to myself for now.

I also don't think the organization has fallen. I think there are some very good preachers, some very good churches, and some that aren't so much. Sounds pretty much like any other org.

AMEN SIS!

Blessings, Rhoni