Facial Hair - Your stance on it please

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Says you.

I speak of churches that teach the only plan of salvation, which you claim to believe.

Your liberties are so dear to you that you will go to trinity churches that don't teach the truth of salvation rather than go somewhere where you might hear something that tweaks your flesh.

That says loud and clear that your love for your own way is greater than your love for the Oneness message and the New Birth message.

You can rant otherwise all you want, but your actions speak luder than words.

I have prayed for you numerous times, Coop.

You are a man with a lot of potential.

But you let trinkets become more important to you than the great treasure God allowed you to receive.

That is a source of grief to me.

What is the difference Coon?
Acts2:38 Churches that preach Cult like rules or Loving Trinity fellowships?

[Michael The Disciple]

Coonskinner said:

I have told men that it would be sad to let a beard hide from others the good person that I know, and that I think it is honorable to forego this liberty in order to expand out influence.

Me:

Expand our influence? Who is our? Oneness people I assume. But the problem is the INFLUENCE is the wrong way. I would say many if not MULTITUDES have turned off the Oneness message because of the influence of false doctrine such as

a. Beards are sinful
b. Beards are so shameful if you are "platform minister" you must shave them off.

They reason that if Oneness teaches such blatent traditions of men they probably do not know Gods word either.

[COOPER]

Originally Posted by COOPER

What is the difference Coon?
Acts2:38 Churches that preach Cult like rules or Loving Trinity fellowships?

Coon I would rather my Family and children enjoy Church ,worship,and Know Acts2:38 etc...

Than to be a backslid-den UPC that hates church.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

That is good to hear... your example seemed to say something different.... I am glad to hear this... anything else would have totally unexpected.



Again.. good to hear...



Just a question here. Do you not feel that for someone who carries as much authority as many people place in them to make a statement like this that it would be taken as very similar to having been taught over the pulpit as a standard. This is very close to what I spoke of before. It is not being preached but there is a definite peer pressure being placed there.

Also one more question.... after you make these passing suggestions to a brother and a few weeks or months pass and he still hasn't shaved the beard. What is your opinion of his attitude in this situation? Do you feel he is being rebellious in any way? Do you fully accept this decision on his part if he doesn't take your passing comment to heart?


If I sought to offer or withhold a D4T seal of approval then I would not be wise. In that I would be comparing you to me and I have already quoted scripture as to the errancy of such comparisons.

I am simply discussing the subject. I think that what we are having here is a wonderful discussion (the most enjoyable I have experienced in a while as people mostly just want to yell back and forth) and for that I give you thanks and honor.

if we disagree... that is fine... but we have had an open exchange of ideas and that is the key to learning. I appreciate your patience with my posts and the great opportunity for discussion on this subject that you are offering.

In response to the bolded portion:

I refuse to make this an issue of rebellion. I probably lose some points on the CQ for that. (Conservative Quotient)

I have learned that if you really want to be in ministry, there are a lot of "rights" that I have to be willing to give up. And things like a beard are the least of it.

So if a man heard my comments and didn't shave his beard, I would basically shrug my shoulders and continue to love him. I would certainly not take it personally or try to run him off. Good grief.

That being said, in ten years of pastoring, there has only been one man pray through here who has not shaved. A fine young Black man who is married and has five beautiful children has a small mustache, and has not been approached about it one tme. If he ever desire to be in a patform ministry, I will talk to him about it then, from the perspective I have expressed here.

Other than that, he is welcome and is my brother.

[LadyChocolate]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

In response to the bolded portion:

I refuse to make this an issue of rebellion. I probably lose some points on the CQ for that. (Conservative Quotient)

I have learned that if you really want to be in ministry, there are a lot of "rights" that I have to be willing to give up. And things like a beard are the least of it.

So if a man heard my comments and didn't shave his beard, I would basically shrug my shoulders and continue to love him. I would certainly not take it personally or try to run him off. Good grief.

That being said, in ten years of pastoring, there has only been one man pray through here who has not shaved. A fine young Black man who is married and has five beautiful children has a small mustache, and has not been approached about it one tme. If he ever desire to be in a patform ministry, I will talk to him about it then, from the perspective I have expressed here.

Other than that, he is welcome and is my brother.

Balanced I say!!!!!!

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by COOPER

What is the difference Coon?
Acts2:38 Churches that preach Cult like rules or Loving Trinity fellowships?

You can neither see nor enter the Kingdom without being born again.

So it matters not how loving or sweet a trinity church is, nobody is going to heaven by their doctrine.

The two are not even in the same world, much less comparable.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

In response to the bolded portion:

I refuse to make this an issue of rebellion. I probably lose some points on the CQ for that. (Conservative Quotient)

I have learned that if you really want to be in ministry, there are a lot of "rights" that I have to be willing to give up. And things like a beard are the least of it.

So if a man heard my comments and didn't shave his beard, I would basically shrug my shoulders and continue to love him. I would certainly not take it personally or try to run him off. Good grief.

That being said, in ten years of pastoring, there has only been one man pray through here who has not shaved. A fine young Black man who is married and has five beautiful children has a small mustache, and has not been approached about it one tme. If he ever desire to be in a patform ministry, I will talk to him about it then, from the perspective I have expressed here.

Other than that, he is welcome and is my brother.

While my comprehension doesn't reach around the platform issue for something not in the word...

I am pleased to read the rest of your post.

It will not be complete during this generation I am sure... but we appear to be moving past the 4 decade run of this "standard" and it appears that it's days are numbered and its reign is coming to an end.

[Coonskinner]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

While my comprehension doesn't reach around the platform issue for something not in the word...

I am pleased to read the rest of your post.

It will not be complete during this generation I am sure... but we appear to be moving past the 4 decade run of this "standard" and it appears that it's days are numbered and its reign is coming to an end.

I would say you are correct in assuming that it is losing its stigma.

And since this is clearly something that is a Romans 14 issue, I have no problem with that.

But I will not create disunity among the believers I fellowship over something so small.

That is a very small concession for ministry in my opinion.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

In response to the bolded portion:

I refuse to make this an issue of rebellion. I probably lose some points on the CQ for that. (Conservative Quotient)

I have learned that if you really want to be in ministry, there are a lot of "rights" that I have to be willing to give up. And things like a beard are the least of it.

So if a man heard my comments and didn't shave his beard, I would basically shrug my shoulders and continue to love him. I would certainly not take it personally or try to run him off. Good grief.

That being said, in ten years of pastoring, there has only been one man pray through here who has not shaved. A fine young Black man who is married and has five beautiful children has a small mustache, and has not been approached about it one tme. If he ever desire to be in a patform ministry, I will talk to him about it then, from the perspective I have expressed here.

Other than that, he is welcome and is my brother.

Then how are you really different in your view than those who teach it is a sin? When its all said and done you will not recognize a brother in Christ's ministry because he has a beard which you have stated is not a sin PERIOD.

Yes that IS why people have little interest in Oneness Churches.

[HeavenlyOne]

Originally Posted by Coonskinner

Sister,

In the 60's, beards became a symbol of a counter-culture that was wicked, and not something the church needed to be identified with. So men began to teach that it was better to be clean shaven.

While that has changed somewhat, there is still a little bit of that identity lingering. I have been to seminars in the past where secular people recommended that you be clean shaven when applying for jobs, because it presented a more wholesome image.

In the minds of many people in the church, beards are associated with elements that we don't consider wholesome.

Since that is the case, why should I allow my liberty to be a stumblingblock to those people?

No one is offended by my being clean shaven; some might be if I were to wear a beard.

Since I must be a good steward of the ministry God has called me to, and since my opportunities to minister would be much inhibited by my insistence on taking that liberty, I choose to forego it.

Not because it would be a sin, and not because I think it is a requirement for salvation. Obviously it is not.

But because it is lawful but not expedient.

Thanks. I agree with you and believe that you have the right to choose as well. However, the things you propose for yourself above can't be spread across the board as we have culture to also consider. I know you are aware that in some countries, a man without a beard is considered to be somewhat inferior or shamed.

You are white and speak as such. Nothing wrong with that. I never met a hippie who was anything but white. That leads me to believe the precendent for no beards was set up by white men.

In this country, we have so many races and cultures that I'm sure there isn't a soul alive that can keep up with the constant changes. I guess my point is, in the past anyway, white men have tried to maintain that standard from the 60's and apply it to all men everywhere. Therefore, I don't understand the statement that any man having a beard is somehow hiding himself.

In the minds of many people in the church, I have to wonder what percentage are white who believe that beards are associated with elements that aren't wholesome. Do you see what I mean?

Another element is that the female hippies had long hair, yet we didn't start preaching to our women that we shouldn't wear ours as they did because of the influence of their culture.

One would have to be about 60 yrs old to remember the hippie days and what it represented. There aren't that many people in the church who are that age and above, so the teachings about those days are quite confusing to the younger generation. And I read where you said that you don't teach such, but many still do.

I hope I've been clear in my ideas and thoughts here. It's still early and I haven't had coffee yet.