Tulsa Report Day 2

[NW Pastor]

This is why the righteous indignation of the Tulsa defenders on this forum rings so hollow. They all know there will be a real and painful splintering of organizational bonds, regardless of all public declarations or lack thereof by the Tulsa founders.

[RevBuddy]

These "defenders" are using an elastic double standard...one for "their guys" to do whatever is necessary...and another that quickly closes in our "their guys'" opposition.

[pelathais]

The organizers are playing a careful game. They believe that they stand to gain a lot so they're careful with their words. Also, nothing exists in spoken words the way it appears on paper.

For example, no one's name was used without their permission. Period. That was checked and rechecked and no one was found to have slipped through. Yet when KH's letter is brought up where he describes people who said that their names were used without permission - does a contradiction exist? No! It's just a matter of timing and a misunderstanding. KH is "correct," but at the same time "mistaken."

Also, when the claims that "no organization was being formed" were being thrown around after Tampa, angry words were said to the skeptics. When the Bible quizzing site was put up, those angry words ceased and a wait-and-see attitude developed. Then when a full blown bureaucracy was revealed we were told that this was the plan all along. You were mistaken to have said, "No new organization was being formed."

The WPF web site was "hacked" when links to publically accessible pages were posted here. Apparently Google was involved in the "hacking" because the webmasters were careful to have submitted their brand new pages to the search engine for public indexing. Since when is submitting your own public web pages to Google so that anyone in the world can find them called "privacy?" But that's what the Tulsa organizers want us to believe.

Questions arose about the ethics of the recruiting methods. The UPCI mailing list was and then wasn't, and then was obtained for purposes of recruitment. Somehow WEC either waived all their standard procedures for the use of this list or ethics don't really apply when WEC is the "backslidden" party.

Using the UPC to split itself is "okay" because "no new organization was being formed." But then when the organization is formed, the participants all boast about the fine spirit in which this was done.

And we are called upon to applaud this work? Okay. I applaud. If they can keep it up for another year I will stand and applaud. But I would hope that they would blush before then.

[NW Pastor]

So true.

[TrmptPraise]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The organizers are playing a careful game. They believe that they stand to gain a lot so they're careful with their words. Also, nothing exists in spoken words the way it appears on paper.

For example, no one's name was used without their permission. Period. That was checked and rechecked and no one was found to have slipped through. Yet when KH's letter is brought up where he describes people who said that their names were used without permission - does a contradiction exist? No! It's just a matter of timing and a misunderstanding. KH is "correct," but at the same time "mistaken."

Also, when the claims that "no organization was being formed" were being thrown around after Tampa, angry words were said to the skeptics. When the Bible quizzing site was put up, those angry words ceased and a wait-and-see attitude developed. Then when a full blown bureaucracy was revealed we were told that this was the plan all along. You were mistaken to have said, "No new organization was being formed."

The WPF web site was "hacked" when links to publically accessible pages were posted here. Apparently Google was involved in the "hacking" because the webmasters were careful to have submitted their brand new pages to the search engine for public indexing. Since when is submitting your own public web pages to Google so that anyone in the world can find them called "privacy?" But that's what the Tulsa organizers want us to believe.

Questions arose about the ethics of the recruiting methods. The UPCI mailing list was and then wasn't, and then was obtained for purposes of recruitment. Somehow WEC either waived all their standard procedures for the use of this list or ethics don't really apply when WEC is the "backslidden" party.

Using the UPC to split itself is "okay" because "no new organization was being formed." But then when the organization is formed, the participants all boast about the fine spirit in which this was done.

And we are called upon to applaud this work? Okay. I applaud. If they can keep it up for another year I will stand and applaud. But I would hope that they would blush before then.

That scoring judge on the right is being investigated.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

Does anyone on this forum believe for one minute that there will not be a new, totally separate organization which will arise from the WPF "fellowship"? All of this blather over who said what when gets a little tiresome. There will be a separation. Period.

Originally Posted by RevBuddy

PP and NW Pastor...

You both are EXACTLY CORRECT...no question.

Originally Posted by NW Pastor

This is why the righteous indignation of the Tulsa defenders on this forum rings so hollow. They all know there will be a real and painful splintering of organizational bonds, regardless of all public declarations or lack thereof by the Tulsa founders.

Originally Posted by pelathais

The organizers are playing a careful game. They believe that they stand to gain a lot so they're careful with their words. Also, nothing exists in spoken words the way it appears on paper.

For example, no one's name was used without their permission. Period. That was checked and rechecked and no one was found to have slipped through. Yet when KH's letter is brought up where he describes people who said that their names were used without permission - does a contradiction exist? No! It's just a matter of timing and a misunderstanding. KH is "correct," but at the same time "mistaken."

Also, when the claims that "no organization was being formed" were being thrown around after Tampa, angry words were said to the skeptics. When the Bible quizzing site was put up, those angry words ceased and a wait-and-see attitude developed. Then when a full blown bureaucracy was revealed we were told that this was the plan all along. You were mistaken to have said, "No new organization was being formed."

The WPF web site was "hacked" when links to publically accessible pages were posted here. Apparently Google was involved in the "hacking" because the webmasters were careful to have submitted their brand new pages to the search engine for public indexing. Since when is submitting your own public web pages to Google so that anyone in the world can find them called "privacy?" But that's what the Tulsa organizers want us to believe.

Questions arose about the ethics of the recruiting methods. The UPCI mailing list was and then wasn't, and then was obtained for purposes of recruitment. Somehow WEC either waived all their standard procedures for the use of this list or ethics don't really apply when WEC is the "backslidden" party.

Using the UPC to split itself is "okay" because "no new organization was being formed." But then when the organization is formed, the participants all boast about the fine spirit in which this was done.

And we are called upon to applaud this work? Okay. I applaud. If they can keep it up for another year I will stand and applaud. But I would hope that they would blush before then.

Thanks guys. I was starting to feel sort of lonely out here.

Look, I have been around NFCF, and now AFF, for about 18 months now. The same posters who are defending this Tulsa stuff are the ones who have consistently said that AS signers who lie are sinful, deceitful and worse.

I agreed with them then. I still agree that deception is wrong, whether it comes from Tulsa, or by signing an agreement you don't believe in.

[Nahum]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The organizers are playing a careful game. They believe that they stand to gain a lot so they're careful with their words. Also, nothing exists in spoken words the way it appears on paper.

For example, no one's name was used without their permission. Period. That was checked and rechecked and no one was found to have slipped through. Yet when KH's letter is brought up where he describes people who said that their names were used without permission - does a contradiction exist? No! It's just a matter of timing and a misunderstanding. KH is "correct," but at the same time "mistaken."

Also, when the claims that "no organization was being formed" were being thrown around after Tampa, angry words were said to the skeptics. When the Bible quizzing site was put up, those angry words ceased and a wait-and-see attitude developed. Then when a full blown bureaucracy was revealed we were told that this was the plan all along. You were mistaken to have said, "No new organization was being formed."

The WPF web site was "hacked" when links to publically accessible pages were posted here. Apparently Google was involved in the "hacking" because the webmasters were careful to have submitted their brand new pages to the search engine for public indexing. Since when is submitting your own public web pages to Google so that anyone in the world can find them called "privacy?" But that's what the Tulsa organizers want us to believe.

Questions arose about the ethics of the recruiting methods. The UPCI mailing list was and then wasn't, and then was obtained for purposes of recruitment. Somehow WEC either waived all their standard procedures for the use of this list or ethics don't really apply when WEC is the "backslidden" party.

Using the UPC to split itself is "okay" because "no new organization was being formed." But then when the organization is formed, the participants all boast about the fine spirit in which this was done.

And we are called upon to applaud this work? Okay. I applaud. If they can keep it up for another year I will stand and applaud. But I would hope that they would blush before then.

This is the best post I have seen since Tampa.

It accurately synopsizes events leading up to, during and immediately after the passing of resolution four.

[NW Pastor]

Originally Posted by Pastor Poster

This is the best post I have seen since Tampa.

It accurately synopsizes events leading up to, during and immediately after the passing of resolution four.

I agree. The wordsmiths and propoganda machine has been quite busy.

Take a lesson from history. Hitler did not want to conquer the world. He had nothing against the Czechs, Poles, French or anyone else. He just wanted some "living space" where the great German people, the Master Race, could take their rightful place of divine appointment and bless the world with little blond haired blue eyed supermen.

In fact, he was so good at it that British PM Chamberlain came back from Tulsa... oops I mean Munich proclaiming we have "peace in our time". What a great meeting that was, by all accounts (except of course the Czechs)! The Germans and the rest of Europe could live side by side peacfully. WW II promptly erupted and destroyed much of Europe.

I would never equate these men with Hitler. My point is to say, watch what is done, study the backtrail, and ignore the propaganda.

[NW Pastor]

So true. I, who would have voted against the resolution, did not vote to send it to committee. I wanted to defeat it right then. To say a "committee" vote was a vote against the resolution is not right. We can not get in the head of each preacher who voted (but boy would that be interesting)!

So, no, it was not voted against in Columbus.

[Sacerdotal]

Sounds like some are upset they didn't get a position offered to them.