Do Outward Standards Protect Inward Holiness?

[SavedLou]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

Outward "standards" do absolutely NOTHING to protect inward holiness! Lord have mercy!! All one has to do is attend a GC and view all of the "painted on" ankle length dresses, which leave almost nothing to the imagination. Sorry for being so blunt, but it is the truth and most know it.

I've pastored for almost 25 yrs. 13 of which was a UPC church. My experience is that whether they are pants or long skirts, they have a tendency to be removed when there is no heart consecration. No holiness standard will EVER prevent that and never has.

Consecration is the ONLY deterrent for the "happy hormones!"

Inward holiness is only protected through a true relationship with Jesus Christ. Outside of that, it is just a whited wall! That is why so much "standard" preaching doesn't get the job done. Get them connected to a standard and they'll surely fall. Get them connected to Jesus and whether their hair is short or long, whether they wear a dress or slacks, make-up or not, and they will serve Him.

good post! the first part about GC makes me think of my husband (then fiance) when we went to a campmeeting service and he was still baptist. after we left he said "um...i thought the point of wearing skirts was partly b/c of modesty. some of the girls i saw tonight made me blush and turn my head away. they would've been more modest in a pair of pants." and he wasn't referring to visitors either. this should be a wakeup call to some. this was coming from an outsider at the time. sad...so many preachers will preach against pants and "worldly women" all the while some of our girls are wearing skirts that our 10x worse.

[harleypreacher]

Originally Posted by staysharp

I recently heard a message by a high profile UPC speaker. If I called his name, all would know him.

He said this; I believe in our standards because they protect our inward holiness.

Now my question is this: How can outward fleshly standards of dress protect Christ within us? Can the flesh actually protect holiness?

I understand standards may protect our reputation or witness for Christ, but can they actually protect Christ?

Did not Jesus say it's not what comes from without that defiles, but what comes from within?

Should the flesh even be alive with Christ in us? Does not God's word teach us to mortify the flesh and its deeds? Romans 6?

I would appreciate your comments. God bless.

Please help me I'm third generation Pentecostal, UPC pastor of a mid-size church, and have been studying the Bible and I can't find HOLINESS STANDARDS in the Bible internal or external. Internal Holiness would be the Holy Ghost and the evidence of that is not speaking in tongues but the fruit of the Spirit found in Galatians 5. I do believe speaking in tongues as evidence of the Holy Ghost, but after that there should be some fruit after you tongue talk. Too many Pentecostals speaking in tongues without love and joy and they get in the mode of protecting holiness standards without LOVE.

How can the way you dress protect Love, Joy, Peace, etc?

Where did Jesus teach his disciples standards?

There are a lot of UPC preachers starting to ask questions and not getting good Biblical answers on the holiness standard issue.

Can someone please list holiness standards from the Bible, the Bible says to wear this or do this to be holy.

[tv1a]

You forgot the lost book of the Bible, the Manual.

Originally Posted by harleypreacher

Please help me I'm third generation Pentecostal, UPC pastor of a mid-size church, and have been studying the Bible and I can't find HOLINESS STANDARDS in the Bible internal or external. Internal Holiness would be the Holy Ghost and the evidence of that is not speaking in tongues but the fruit of the Spirit found in Galatians 5. I do believe speaking in tongues as evidence of the Holy Ghost, but after that there should be some fruit after you tongue talk. Too many Pentecostals speaking in tongues without love and joy and they get in the mode of protecting holiness standards without LOVE.

How can the way you dress protect Love, Joy, Peace, etc?

Where did Jesus teach his disciples standards?

There are a lot of UPC preachers starting to ask questions and not getting good Biblical answers on the holiness standard issue.

Can someone please list holiness standards from the Bible, the Bible says to wear this or do this to be holy.

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by harleypreacher

Please help me I'm third generation Pentecostal, UPC pastor of a mid-size church, and have been studying the Bible and I can't find HOLINESS STANDARDS in the Bible internal or external. Internal Holiness would be the Holy Ghost and the evidence of that is not speaking in tongues but the fruit of the Spirit found in Galatians 5. I do believe speaking in tongues as evidence of the Holy Ghost, but after that there should be some fruit after you tongue talk. Too many Pentecostals speaking in tongues without love and joy and they get in the mode of protecting holiness standards without LOVE.

How can the way you dress protect Love, Joy, Peace, etc?

Where did Jesus teach his disciples standards?

There are a lot of UPC preachers starting to ask questions and not getting good Biblical answers on the holiness standard issue.

Can someone please list holiness standards from the Bible, the Bible says to wear this or do this to be holy.

Certainly! Here they are:










Where's that "cricket" sound when you need it?

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by harleypreacher

Please help me I'm third generation Pentecostal, UPC pastor of a mid-size church, and have been studying the Bible and I can't find HOLINESS STANDARDS in the Bible internal or external. Internal Holiness would be the Holy Ghost and the evidence of that is not speaking in tongues but the fruit of the Spirit found in Galatians 5. I do believe speaking in tongues as evidence of the Holy Ghost, but after that there should be some fruit after you tongue talk. Too many Pentecostals speaking in tongues without love and joy and they get in the mode of protecting holiness standards without LOVE.

How can the way you dress protect Love, Joy, Peace, etc?

Where did Jesus teach his disciples standards?

There are a lot of UPC preachers starting to ask questions and not getting good Biblical answers on the holiness standard issue.

Can someone please list holiness standards from the Bible, the Bible says to wear this or do this to be holy.

Wow. Great post.

Yep. It will be men like you who change the UPC. The UPC will change but only after men like you are sick and tired of trying to win the lost of your city while having to balance these "standards" or trick folks into coming to church.

My pastor basically lost his license because he wouldn't "enforce" the UPC standards of no cut hair and TV and made the mistake of telling a girl in the church that she wouldn't go to hell for cutting her hair.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by harleypreacher

Where did Jesus teach his disciples standards?

You see this has been a point that few seem to either emphasize or realize ....

Let's look at the big picture of the NT ... Jesus liked looking at the big picture ... For example, He summarized the law in the Great Commandment ... Where does he spend the time harping on dress codes and accessories?

Why is it not proportionate to the amount of time spent on pulpits by the religious legalists.

The same applies to the epistles ... Paul writes most of them yet proportionately ... a miniscule amount of paper is spent explaining to former pagans on how to dress .... or on Acts 2:38 as explained by the 3 steppers for that matter ...

How can you claim to be Apostolic and not teach as the Apostles did ...???

Why is your focus not Apostolic?

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by harleypreacher

Please help me I'm third generation Pentecostal, UPC pastor of a mid-size church, and have been studying the Bible and I can't find HOLINESS STANDARDS in the Bible internal or external. Internal Holiness would be the Holy Ghost and the evidence of that is not speaking in tongues but the fruit of the Spirit found in Galatians 5. I do believe speaking in tongues as evidence of the Holy Ghost, but after that there should be some fruit after you tongue talk. Too many Pentecostals speaking in tongues without love and joy and they get in the mode of protecting holiness standards without LOVE.

How can the way you dress protect Love, Joy, Peace, etc?

Where did Jesus teach his disciples standards?

There are a lot of UPC preachers starting to ask questions and not getting good Biblical answers on the holiness standard issue.

Can someone please list holiness standards from the Bible, the Bible says to wear this or do this to be holy.

I was ordained in UPCI for twenty years. When I became Senior Pastor, I refused to lie to the people. The old guard became furious as they were now going to be exposed for lying and well they attacked me and my family. Spread lies, wrote letters, manipulated, cheated and intimidated the people.

I decided to resign and let them have their building after serving there for 20 years. We started a new church and the district blackballed us immediately even though I had resigned and formally turned in my credentials to the Dist. Supt. BTW, the District was party to it.

Once God shows you this revelation and you understand the work of Grace, you will never be the same.

Couple good websites that will help you understand better.

www.inchristalone.org, www.christianchallenge.org

[staysharp]

Since this is a public video and since someone else already spilled the beans and because he say's "I'm glad the tape is on, I don't want to be misquoted", and since this was a major conference. I decided to let you hear this for yourself to be fair to AM and those posting.

Fast forward to 3:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds5YF...eature=related

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by staysharp

Since this is a public video and since someone else already spilled the beans and because he say's "I'm glad the tape is on, I don't want to be misquoted", and since this was a major conference. I decided to let you hear this for yourself to be fair to AM and those posting.

Fast forward to 3:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds5YF...eature=related

This scares me to death. How can we ever be good enough? How can we ever please God now that we make holiness a part of "what we do that pleases God"?

Holiness IS God. Who are we to think we can become something that he needs? All he wants from us is our heart and life, yet after hearing messages like this the unknowing saint in the pews is left wondering how they can ever measure up. What they can do to please God! THEY CAN"T. WE CAN"T. It is only because of the price that Christ paid for us that we can have communtion with the Holy Spirit and it is his holiness only that keeps us in the grace of God.

[staysharp]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

This scares me to death. How can we ever be good enough? How can we ever please God now that we make holiness a part of "what we do that pleases God"?

Holiness IS God. Who are we to think we can become something that he needs? All he wants from us is our heart and life, yet after hearing messages like this the unknowing saint in the pews is left wondering how they can ever measure up. What they can do to please God! THEY CAN"T. WE CAN"T. It is only because of the price that Christ paid for us that we can have communtion with the Holy Spirit and it is his holiness only that keeps us in the grace of God.

Now that's good preaching!

This type of preaching is a never ending cycle of flesh attempting to appease a mean angry God. It's no different than pagan's sacrificing to their idols, the only difference we become the sacrifice and replace Christ.

It's extremely arrogant to think we could ever do anything in our flesh that would please God.