With out holiness no man shall see GOD

[theoldpaths]

Originally Posted by Carpenter

Just because men in hats and suits that we call our "fathers" said it is?

Standards are practical examples of institutionalism.

I don't have a hat or suit on.

[theoldpaths]

Jdg 17:6 In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Jdg 18:1 In those days there was no king in Israel: and in those days the tribe of the Danites sought them an inheritance to dwell in; for unto that day all their inheritance had not fallen unto them among the tribes of Israel.

Jdg 19:1 And it came to pass in those days, when there was no king in Israel, that there was a certain Levite sojourning on the side of mount Ephraim, who took to him a concubine out of Bethlehem-judah.

Jdg 21:25 In those days there was no king in Israel: every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Its almost like the writer of the last 4 chapters of Judges was embarassed and felt the need to explain over and over again to any readers that the reason why all these weird things were happening to the people of God was because their was no king or anointed leader in those days.

What is one of the consequences of there NOT being an anointed leader? Every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

Seems like some just want to do what is right in their own eyes, that they would rather not be lead, like they are independent and don't need anyone else to tell them what to do. I wonder what a shepherd would do with a sheep like that?

I wonder if there is an example of someone in the OT not obeying the king and the consequences of that?

Such a mess from Judges 17-21.

Seems like nowadays some don't want their toes to be stepped on. They would rather hear smooth things.

[OneAccord]

Good morning! Two things about this thread:

Its true... "without holiness no man shall see God". What is equally true is that "without God, no man (or women) shall see holiness." Jesus said Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. Without Him, our efforts to achieve holiness will fail flat. In fact, without Him we can not become holy. Holiness isn't about keeping standards and ordinances any more than it is about keeping the Law, its about having God in our lives. Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Holiness is achieved when we recieve Him and follow His teachings and allow His Spirit to lead us in the ways of the Lord.

Secondly, I am so glad we have an Annointed King to lead us! He isn't a mere king- but He is the King of Kings! It is by Him dwellng within our hearts we are led in the paths of righteousness. Am I there yet? Not by a long shot... but, without Him, any holiness or righteousness I think I have is nothing more than filthy rags. Thank God, He is the Good Shepherd in whom there is no varibleness nor shadow of turning. He promised to never leave us nor forsake us.

Hbr 12:14 Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Paul teaches two things in this verse:
1) Hbr 12:14 Follow peace with all [men]... without which no man shall see the Lord:

and

2) Hbr 12:14 Follow .... holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

In our quest to follow after holiness, we can't ignore the fact that we are to "follow peace with all men". Since "peace" and "holiness" are enjoined here, doesn't our failures at peace among ourselves say something about our lack of TRUE holiness? Wouldn't the constant debating, arguing, and bickering, be indicators that we aren't as holy as we think we are?

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Bro-Larry

Well, Bro. I feel the same way about your post. You don't keep the Ten Commandments, nor has any one else on this forum. You seem to imply that the Ten C's might be a source of holiness. If you miss one then you are guilty of the whole law. If they are so great, why did Jesus take them out of the way by nailing them to his cross?

The law is for the lawless, those who need to be restrained. That's why they were placed in our courthouses.

Rico is right the law has been distilled down to one word. "agape". If the agape of Christ does not constrain you, then you need the law to restrain you.

hmm So love is not a law? LOL! Christ came so that we could FULLFILL the law not ignore it! He gave us power to over come through his Spirit! I'm sorry but you are misunderstanding or lacking depth in understanding of the OT texts and totaly disregard everything JEsus said.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Good morning! Two things about this thread:

Its true... "without holiness no man shall see God". What is equally true is that "without God, no man (or women) shall see holiness." Jesus said Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. Without Him, our efforts to achieve holiness will fail flat. In fact, without Him we can not become holy. Holiness isn't about keeping standards and ordinances any more than it is about keeping the Law, its about having God in our lives. Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Holiness is achieved when we recieve Him and follow His teachings and allow His Spirit to lead us in the ways of the Lord.

Secondly, I am so glad we have an Annointed King to lead us! He isn't a mere king- but He is the King of Kings! It is by Him dwellng within our hearts we are led in the paths of righteousness. Am I there yet? Not by a long shot... but, without Him, any holiness or righteousness I think I have is nothing more than filthy rags. Thank God, He is the Good Shepherd in whom there is no varibleness nor shadow of turning. He promised to never leave us nor forsake us.

Hbr 12:14 Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Paul teaches two things in this verse:
1) Hbr 12:14 Follow peace with all [men]... without which no man shall see the Lord:

and

2) Hbr 12:14 Follow .... holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

In our quest to follow after holiness, we can't ignore the fact that we are to "follow peace with all men". Since "peace" and "holiness" are enjoined here, doesn't our failures at peace among ourselves say something about our lack of TRUE holiness? Wouldn't the constant debating, arguing, and bickering, be indicators that we aren't as holy as we think we are?

I agree very much!

Holiness is about having God in our lives to live holy thus we follow his ordinances and commandments which is obediance or proper response(faith). Without God, following laws is pointless as you removed the source and without following the law of God you show you lack relationship with him and are at enmity with him. (not speaking to poster) Law is never done away with and if anyone thinks it is then you make Jesus a liar as the prophets.

[theoldpaths]

Originally Posted by OneAccord

Good morning! Two things about this thread:

Its true... "without holiness no man shall see God". What is equally true is that "without God, no man (or women) shall see holiness." Jesus said Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. Without Him, our efforts to achieve holiness will fail flat. In fact, without Him we can not become holy. Holiness isn't about keeping standards and ordinances any more than it is about keeping the Law, its about having God in our lives. Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Holiness is achieved when we recieve Him and follow His teachings and allow His Spirit to lead us in the ways of the Lord.

Secondly, I am so glad we have an Annointed King to lead us! He isn't a mere king- but He is the King of Kings! It is by Him dwellng within our hearts we are led in the paths of righteousness. Am I there yet? Not by a long shot... but, without Him, any holiness or righteousness I think I have is nothing more than filthy rags. Thank God, He is the Good Shepherd in whom there is no varibleness nor shadow of turning. He promised to never leave us nor forsake us.

Hbr 12:14 Follow peace with all [men], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Paul teaches two things in this verse:
1) Hbr 12:14 Follow peace with all [men]... without which no man shall see the Lord:

and

2) Hbr 12:14 Follow .... holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

In our quest to follow after holiness, we can't ignore the fact that we are to "follow peace with all men". Since "peace" and "holiness" are enjoined here, doesn't our failures at peace among ourselves say something about our lack of TRUE holiness? Wouldn't the constant debating, arguing, and bickering, be indicators that we aren't as holy as we think we are?

Very good post.

I wonder what the reaction was of those who did NOT depart from the faith towards those who DID depart from the faith?

I wonder what they did when even among themselves some rose up speaking perverse (distort, misinterpret, corrupt) things to "draw away" disciples after them? Interesting how they wait for strong leadership to be gone or become ineffectual, when this happens; otherwise, strong leadership would not put up with it.

I wonder what they did when some crept in unawares showing an example of turning the grace of God into lasciviousness? How could one creep in unawares? By looking and playing the part on the outside.

I wonder how they responded when false teachers among them tried to bring in damnable heresies (properly a choice, that is, (specifically) a party or (abstractly) disunion. : - heresy, sect.); speaking evil of the way of truth thereby causing many to follow their pernicious ways; who through "coveteousness" and feigned (hypocrisy) words tried to make merchandise of them. They don't care about the people, they just have a desire that starts on the inside to get or to have those things that they don't or can't have right now. They want some things that at one time they didn't have, but they wanted them. They already departed from the faith and became hypocrites, but they use coveteousness, feigned words, and speak evil of the way of truth to try and get those who have NOT departed from the faith to follow their ways. They use people as merchandise to try and justify themselves.

They wait for strong leadership to go away and are not afraid to speak evil of the way of truth and are not afraid to speak evil of dignities because they despise government (mastery, that is, (concretely and collectively) rulers: - dominion, government. ). They don't want to be lead, they don't want to have anyone rule over them, they want to do their own thing. They are self-willed and want to do that which is right in their own eyes. They are presumptuous (From G5111; a daring (audacious) man: - presumptuous.). They have no problem risking their spiritual walk going in a new direction against the ways that they have been taught. They beguile unstable souls after them, because those who are stable appreciate and treasure their stability; they are not willing to risk what they have already achieved on a dare. They allure/seduce through the lusts of their flesh through much lasciviousness those that were clean escaped by their great words of vanity. They promise liberty/freedom, but they themselves are servants of corruption. They were seduced by seducing spirits and of whom a man is brought into bondage of the same is he brought into bondage. Because they were overcome by seducing spirits, they are used to allure/sedue them that were clean escaped.

So I wonder what the reaction was of those who did NOT depart from the faith towards those who DID depart from the faith?

[Bro-Larry]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

hmm So love is not a law? LOL! Christ came so that we could FULLFILL the law not ignore it! He gave us power to over come through his Spirit! I'm sorry but you are misunderstanding or lacking depth in understanding of the OT texts and totaly disregard everything JEsus said.

You and I will never fulfill the law. The fact that Jesus fulfilled the law is the reason it has passed away. Jesus lived perfect and upright under the law, then when he died the law was nailed to his cross.

[LUKE2447]

Originally Posted by Bro-Larry

You and I will never fulfill the law. The fact that Jesus fulfilled the law is the reason it has passed away. Jesus lived perfect and upright under the law, then when he died the law was nailed to his cross.

with your theology you make void the Word of God and the prophecies. What a weak God you make him to be. Also the debts where nailed to the cross or our offenses not the law. Typical!

[LUKE2447]

Also I have always loved the Paulinist mentality of "daaaaaad, I can't do it" ...could you try... "daaaaad, no I don't have to that is what you are here for"...... while stomping out the door of any attempt

hmmm because my flesh is weak doesn't mean I don't try through the power of his Spirit he has given. He made us overcomers not lackers concerning his will/law. Oh and I think Jesus commanded it.

[Bro-Larry]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

with your theology you make void the Word of God and the prophecies. What a weak God you make him to be. Also the debts where nailed to the cross or our offenses not the law. Typical!

You seem to have little or no revelation of why Jesus came, and did the work that he did.

I'm through wih this useless debate, so go ahead and have the last word.