Membership letters??!

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Rhoni

Actually, I agree with you. But at what point are you no longer brothers? That is a topic that would get some length.

Blessings, Rhoni

Not in the way I choose to conduct myself in such scenarios.

If we cannot reach an agreement and nothing but confusion and turmoil are resulting from attempts to do so then I would simply remove myself and call the pastor my brother.

It is not my call whether he is, or is not, any longer my brother. It is the father who knows who His children are. I do not.

God will handle it in the end (if there is anything that needs to be handled... often there is not) but the important part is that, if we need part ways, that I part ways amicably and with respect one for another.

If I have been wronged... that is one thing... If I wrong my brother... That is an entirely different thing... that is a thing I cannot tolerate in my life.

I do all I can to keep myself from a situation where I would wrong my brother no matter how I might feel I have been wronged.

That is the example of my Christ. I must live that example.

[Hoovie]

I guess I see things a bit differently. I think you should have more than a passing obligation to the church and those who you call brethren. What about those who you leave behind? It is your church too - not just a leaders church.

I am not one to change churches every time I have disagreement - even of more serious nature. I feel I can be part of the "balance".

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

I guess I see things a bit differently. I think you should have more than a passing obligation to the church and those who you call brethren. What about those who you leave behind? It is your church too.

Yes sir... I agree and understand what you are saying.

The scenario where a departure was the final result would be one where the pastor would not tolerate my attendance because I had not signed the paper.

If, after a fair attempt had been made to resolve the situation, his continued stance was one that I was not welcome to attend because of not signing the paper then I do not feel that my staying would be anything but a point of discord and confusion among the members.

I would never leave simply because I was not allowed a vote. That would be selfish and a little bit childish on my part.

But in the case where the pastor was demanding my cessation of attendance over the issue... I would, of course, try to reach some sort of agreement... but barring an ability to reach that agreement I don't see where my continuing to attend at that location would do any good for the members or the pastor.

I have stated this in case I had simply been misunderstood as to why I would be leaving the church.

If you still feel that you would stay under the situations above then share a little bit about what you would do in that case. I am interested to know what you might do. You may have some thoughts that I had not yet considered.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Yes sir... I agree and understand what you are saying.

The scenario where a departure was the final result would be one where the pastor would not tolerate my attendance because I had not signed the paper.

If, after a fair attempt had been made to resolve the situation, his continued stance was one that I was not welcome to attend because of not signing the paper then I do not feel that my staying would be anything but a point of discord and confusion among the members.

I would never leave simply because I was not allowed a vote. That would be selfish and a little bit childish on my part.

But in the case where the pastor was demanding my cessation of attendance over the issue... I would, of course, try to reach some sort of agreement... but barring an ability to reach that agreement I don't see where my continuing to attend at that location would do any good for the members or the pastor.

I have stated this in case I had simply been misunderstood as to why I would be leaving the church.

If you still feel that you would stay under the situations above then share a little bit about what you would do in that case. I am interested to know what you might do. You may have some thoughts that I had not yet considered.

You and I are on the same page.
I am not saying leaving should never be an option... just that God may have placed you there to stand up to a misplaced authoritain dictator. It would depend how many other options there were in the area and whether you would need to uproot your family etc.

It may just be easier for the pastor to move on - like to Russia for example, where those tactics still have a bit of honor. LOL!

[Fiyahstarter]

I've spent years worrying about being "accepted" by my brethren and hoping to be included. Hurtful situations for sure (standards-related).

And now this membership agreement thing is one more way that will make people feel like they don't belong, which I am sure is NOT the intent...But it will be the result.

And I'm confused. What voting are you talking about??? In ten years, we've never had a vote of any kind. We did have a business meeting once where ALL were encouraged to attend, but only "members" could speak. But no votes that I know of. Just curious.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

You and I are on the same page.
I am not saying leaving should never be an option... just that God may have placed you there to stand up to a misplaced authoritain dictator. It would depend how many other options there were in the area and whether you would need to uproot your family etc.

It may just be easier for the pastor to move on - like to Russia for example, where those tactics still have a bit of honor. LOL!

LOL... I actually laughed out loud on that one.

Yes sir... It is certainly true that any of the scenarios that I have set forth are sans the reality that being in the actual situation would interject into my imaginings.

I certainly do see where both directions are very valid options and only the leading of the Spirit in an actual real-life situation would make that final decision.

I do agree completely with the points you have made and view them as equally valid options.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Fiyahstarter

I've spent years worrying about being "accepted" by my brethren and hoping to be included. Hurtful situations for sure (standards-related).

And now this membership agreement thing is one more way that will make people feel like they don't belong, which I am sure is NOT the intent...But it will be the result.

And I'm confused. What voting are you talking about??? In ten years, we've never had a vote of any kind. We did have a business meeting once where ALL were encouraged to attend, but only "members" could speak. But no votes that I know of. Just curious.

Most often the votes are for a new pastor. I am sure there are other scenarios as well but they appear to be finding plenty of places to hide in the vast emptiness that is my mind.

[stmatthew]

A lot of these "Membership Letters" and "Ministry Agreements" stem from the fear that someone will sue the church. An example would be if someone was ministering in the choir, and had stated that they agreed with standards of the church concerning jewelry, and then showed up all decked out like Mr T. If such a one was "set down", they could not run and try to sue over it because they had signed the papaer that they understood and agreed with the church standards.


Personally, I think these things are foolish, and childish. If you don't know someone by the spirit enough to trust them on the platform, then you really shouldn't bring them up there in the first place.

[stmatthew]

As far as a person not paying tithes and offerings into the local church they attend, IMHO they would be what God spoke about when he stated that some were robbers and thieves. If the local church is good enough to feed your sorry carcass, then it is good enough to receive of your financial blessings so that it can continue to feed your sorry carcass. To withhold finances from where you dine spiritually is thievery, plain and simple.

[Sam]

Years ago when I was going to an ALJC church we had a business meeting in early February of each year. Dinner was served and a report was given of the finances (nothing in detail). Those who were tithe payers and currently paid up were allowed to vote.

One year at the annual meeting the pastor's son was voted in as an assistant pastor. Some of the older, founding members were not present and there was some disagreement. A group left and formed another church which became UPC.

Another problem which came from that meeting was when some of the members asked for more details concerning the finances. They wanted to know salary figures. The information was refused to them. When one person pressed a little he was disfellowshipped and he took the church to court. From what I understand the judge found in his favor and I guess he got to see the figures. He and the others left and joined the church that split group.

I had already left that church several years before that meeting and split.