Jesus forsaken?

[mfblume]

Jesus was God and man at the same time. He is the only God there ever was. Deity was inside Him because His very person is God. But His soul and body were human. The deity in Christ withdrew the INFLUENCE of comfort to the human soul. The deity remained in Him, though. He never ceased being God. But the influence of the comfort of His deity was withdrawn from the humanity. His humanity was actually feeling forsaken. He was not quoting scripture as though what He said was not true of Him. He was not pretending when He cried this cry forth. But it was not as though the Spirit of God left that body to leave Him solely human. That is not possible. I already said He was always trhe fullness of the Godhead bodily.

He never ceased being God manifest in flesh. It's just that the INFLUENCE of the Deity UPON the human soul was pulled away, while the Deity remained in that Body.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Jesus was God and man at the same time. He is the only God there ever was. Deity was inside Him because His very person is God. But His soul and body were human. The deity in Christ withdrew the INFLUENCE of comfort to the human soul. The deity remained in Him, though. He never ceased being God. But the influence of the comfort of His deity was withdrawn from the humanity. His humanity was actually feeling forsaken. He was not quoting scripture as though what He said was not true of Him. He was not pretending when He cried this cry forth. But it was not as though the Spirit of God left that body to leave Him solely human. That is not possible. I already said He was always trhe fullness of the Godhead bodily.

He never ceased being God manifest in flesh. It's just that the INFLUENCE of the Deity UPON the human soul was pulled away, while the Deity remained in that Body.

So when you say that Jesus cried out, what are you saying?

Maybe this would be a good time for you to lay some Word on us.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

So when you say that Jesus cried out, what are you saying?

Maybe this would be a good time for you to lay some Word on us.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

I was saying He suffered.

Hebrews 5:7-10 KJV Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; (8) Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; (9) And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; (10) Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Part of that crying forth is noted here in Hebrews 5, as well as the Garden crying.

His crying was His humanity actually suffering.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It could mean that Christ was humanly abandoned by all support of His deity that He felt absolute suffering and agony, without comfort whatsoever, although He always and fully remained the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Whatever the case, Jesus was always fullness of the Godhead bodily. Deity did not physically leave Him. But I do believe deity in Him pulled all comfort towards His human soul away, which is what happens due to our sin. Would that not be called spiritual death?

If deity physically left Jesus, He would not exist as a person, because His Person is God.

Originally Posted by mfblume

I was saying He suffered.

Originally Posted by mfblume

It could mean that Christ was humanly abandoned by all support of His deity that He felt absolute suffering and agony, without comfort whatsoever, although He always and fully remained the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

You offered us Hebrews 5:7-10, and the scripture says in the days, "plural" of His flesh. Then are you saying that Jesus was "abandoned by all support of His deity, without comfort whatsoever," prior to the cross?
Are you saying that your teaching that Jesus died spiritually, happened over the course of time, as in the "days" of His flesh?

Originally Posted by mfblume

Hebrews 5:7-10 KJV Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; (8) Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; (9) And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; (10) Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.

Part of that crying forth is noted here in Hebrews 5, as well as the Garden crying.

Brother Blume, are you saying that Jesus' garden prayer, His meeting with the High Priest, Herod, Pilate and the walk to Golgotha He was being abandoned by all support of His deity, without comfort whatsoever? Jesus is the Garden, all the way to His physical death on the cross was Jesus spiritually dying?

Originally Posted by mfblume

His crying was His humanity actually suffering.

What does that mean?

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[TK Burk]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

There are dozens and dozens but not one that mentions him spiritually dying

Thank you! That is why I asked Bro. Blume for clarification. I have yet to see where he has shown the Bible agrees with his theory that Jesus spiritually died.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by TK Burk

Thank you! That is why I asked Bro. Blume for clarification. I have yet to see where he has shown the Bible agrees with his theory that Jesus spiritually died.

I have yet to see you answer my questions.

Do you believe in "spiritual death"? Where does the bible use the terms "spiritual death"? If the bible does not use those terms, why would you believe in "spiritual death"? What scriptures would you use to prove "spiritual death" if the bible does not use that phrase?

Anyway, let me also answer Bro Benincasa. I already explained all I need regarding Heb 5. It was the cross. During the days of His flesh, one day occurred when He was in the Garden and the very next day He was crucified. Please show where else he had strong crying with tears to Him who was able to save Him.

[Sam]

I think what Bro. Blume is saying is:

Jesus was human in body, soul, and spirit.
He was also God. The only God there is lived in Jesus.
He had two natures, human and Deity.

Spritual death is separation from God.
God remained in Jesus as He hung on the cross. Deity did not withdraw from Him on the cross.
But (as man) He felt totally alone and completely abandoned by God.

I think that's what Bro. Blume is saying.
I'm not trying to put words in his mouth.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sam

I think what Bro. Blume is saying is:

Jesus was human in body, soul, and spirit.
He was also God. The only God there is lived in Jesus.
He had two natures, human and Deity.

Spritual death is separation from God.
God remained in Jesus as He hung on the cross. Deity did not withdraw from Him on the cross.
But (as man) He felt totally alone and completely abandoned by God.

I think that's what Bro. Blume is saying.
I'm not trying to put words in his mouth.

Thank-you. That is what I am saying. Not so hard to follow, is it. And that suffering is what I am wondering is a spiritual death Jesus experienced. He was not just quoting scripture. The prophecy of this statement of crying was predicting He would make this cry. Would you say this is a sort of spiritual death, Sam? At any rate, it was a cry of actual suffering. Not an act. Not quoting verses.

I am also saying Jesus was the one single person of God.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I have yet to see you answer my questions.

Do you believe in "spiritual death"? Where does the bible use the terms "spiritual death"? If the bible does not use those terms, why would you believe in "spiritual death"? What scriptures would you use to prove "spiritual death" if the bible does not use that phrase?

Anyway, let me also answer Bro Benincasa. I already explained all I need regarding Heb 5. It was the cross. During the days of His flesh, one day occurred when He was in the Garden and the very next day He was crucified. Please show where else he had strong crying with tears to Him who was able to save Him.

Are you saying that Jesus felt as if God had abandoned Him?

You said you agreed with this post.

Originally Posted by Sam

But (as man) He felt totally alone and completely abandoned by God.

Originally Posted by mfblume

Thank-you. That is what I am saying.

Therefore since you agree with Brother Ellis, but does feeling lonely and being lonely the same thing? Did you really answer my question? Let's see.

Originally Posted by mfblume

The deity in Christ withdrew the INFLUENCE of COMFORT to the human soul.

I asked you this before, can you tell me what is that "COMFORTING INFLUENCE" that had been withdrawn? If you had already answered me, I apologize, and you can just direct me to where you had answered me.
If a "COMFORTING INFLUENCE" had been withdrawn, I would like you to show me with the scripture what this "COMFORTING INFLUENCE" was.

Originally Posted by mfblume

But the influence of the comfort of His DEITY was WITHDRAWN from the humanity.

It looks as if Jesus is having a portion of His deity being withdrawn from His humanity? I understand that you said that Jesus was fully God at all times, but doesn't this sound like He is losing something, and that something most be separating itself from Him, and (in your words) abandoning Him?

What exactly was that which abandoned Him?

Originally Posted by mfblume

His humanity was actually feeling forsaken.

Then was Jesus only FEELING abandoned?

Maybe you can clear this all up by telling me what the "COMFORTING INFLUENCE" was.

Thank you for your clarification on this issue.

In Jesus name

Brother Benincasa

www.OnTimeJournal.com

[Evang.Benincasa]

Brother Blume, where does the bible use the terms "influence of comfort?" If the bible does not use those terms, why would you believe in "influence of comfort?"

What scriptures would you use to prove "influence of comfort" if the bible does not use that phrase?