Pros/Cons of the Three-step doctrine

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

Alot of people of all races and faiths have really good people. So why would it be any different from someone who simply says I agree with this andstill be a good person? Being a good person and following a philosophy does not save you. Many people of all religions have had experience of change for a higher purpose and for the good of man and set aside many things. People who justify truth by numbers due to XYZ belief makes ABC good person not saved is unbelievable. Also please define living for the Lord. What by human wisdom? What justifies you "living for the Lord" to negate scripture.

All I need to know is you deny baptism is for remission of sins and when the atonement of Christ is realized. To me that shows me how far you have had to go in your logic. Few things will I say are hardcore doctrine and I will not make exceptions to and baptism is one of them. You really have to do a lot of negating of scripture and it ususally is due to other doctrines that influence this. All doctrine have a vien of reasoning and most that are against baptism in that way usually are follow the same course of false doctrine.

Listen very closely: I do NOT believe in "Easy Believism" which basically states that all you have to do is say a prayer and you're saved. I believe in genuine repentance. If one has not repented and surrendered their life to Jesus Christ, then I don't care how many times they were baptized, even in Jesus' name or how often they speak in tongues.....no repentance, no salvation.

I have never negated baptism. I believe that the scripture commands baptism and everyone who truly repents and is justified is to be baptized in obedience to scripture. We're having 4 get baptized this morning in response to last Sunday's message. I always baptize in Jesus name.

Sam hit it right on the head. We're not talking about GOOD people. We're talking about GODLY people who have given their lives to Jesus Christ and many of them speak with tongues and have received the HGB and live for God.

We're not talking about "spiritual" people who have had some type of awakening or spiritual experience. We're talking about people who have had an encounter with the Almighty and are as obedient as they know to be.

That is a far cry from someone who blatantly rejects God's word.

[Light]

Originally Posted by ManOfWord

That's not the problem. The 3 step plan is unique in its logical conclusion. The problem is it puts godly people in hell whose lives have changed and who are living for the Lord.

I know people who have change and if you looked at them you would say they are christians. They live a cleaner life than some christians I know. People can change without God. Oh BTW they don't believe there is a God.

[Sam]

We are not talking about good moral people here who have no acquaintance with Jesus. We are talking about people who were sinners, people who became convicted and drawn by the Holy Spirit, and after hearing about His death on the cross, turned to the Lord in faith and repentance and asked Jesus Christ to come into their lives. When they did that, something happened. Their life was radically changed. We one-steppers would call that salvation or conversion or a born again experience. Three-steppers would call it a good start but not near enough to save them. Other three-steppers would call it deception or a work of satan because it was not followed by water baptism and the Holy Ghost Baptism. Some of those folks that I am speaking of even went on and received the Holy Ghost Baptism, but because they did not get baptized in water "properly" three steppers had to do something with them so they react in various ways. Some say they still aren't saved because they haven't completed the "three steps." Others say they are on their way to hell because their sins haven't been forgiven/remitted/washed away. Others say they did not receive the "real" Holy Ghost. Meanwhile these theoretical people continue on, loving the Lord, serving the Lord, exhibiting the fruit of the Spirit, operating in the gifts of the Spirit, etc. oblivious to the fact that they are on their way to hell because they haven't completed the three steps properly.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Light

I know people who have change and if you looked at them you would say they are christians. They live a cleaner life than some christians I know. People can change without God. Oh BTW they don't believe there is a God.

Sounds like you would agree with this ad:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...=2009905190380

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by Light

I know people who have change and if you looked at them you would say they are christians. They live a cleaner life than some christians I know. People can change without God. Oh BTW they don't believe there is a God.

We're not talking about people who simply have a change of life. We're not talking about people who live a clean life. We're talking about people who have surrendered their lives to Jesus Christ, sincerely, honestly and wholeheartedly. We're talking about people who love God and His word. We're talking about people who have been baptized (in the titles) and received the HGB and people who have been baptized in Jesus' name and who have not yet spoken in tongues.

We're not talking about people who don't believe there is a God.

[KWSS1976]

[KWSS1976]

Any takers with me on the water not physically washing sins away or am I out there by myself on this one..LOL

[ManOfWord]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Any takers with me on the water not phisically washing sins away or am I out there by myself on this one..LOL

I'm with you on that one. It is the blood and always has been the blood.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by KWSS1976

Any takers with me on the water not physically washing sins away or am I out there by myself on this one..LOL

I realize there are differences of opinion here, but in my opinion, water baptism does not actually wash away anything but is the answer/response to a clear conscience with God.

Some of those who believe water baptism is needed to obtain remission/forgiveness of sin believe that "the blood is in the name" and properly reciting the name audibly removes/washes away/forgives/remits the sin. I think I actually had an article in the Pentecostal Herald that said that but I haven't been able to find it. Maybe it was just in the Ohio District UPC paper. Others believe that the act of obedience washes away/removes/etc. the sin.

[Sam]

On the day of Pentecost, the Apostle Peter stated, "whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" (Acts 2:21). He was quoting from the prophet Yoel. Some years later, the Apostle Paul affirmed the same thing (Romans 10:8-13).

Peter told the crowd on the Day of Pentecost to follow up their faith and change of heart with a dip in one of the many Temple mikvehs in the name of the Lord (Acts 2:38). He also told them that the empowering of the Holy Spirit as they had seen poured out on people earlier that day was a promise of the Father to anyone that the Lord calls to Himself (Acts 2:38-39).

It is my opinion that we can expect people to follow up their conversion with water baptism, and we can exhort them to, but we cannot say they will not be saved if they don't.