A fast growing UPC church thats doing it right

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by jfrog

Caution is good. When I see people out in the streets screaming into a microphone about Jesus, I can't help but think they are loonies. If someone was to hand me a tract I probably wouldn't grab it. Personally I think most of the people in the world react the same way I would. I can't imagine those kinds of actions drawing anyone to church. Maybe I'm wrong, but do you honestly think those kinds of actions are really that effective?

Loonies? What? For witnessing Christ Jesus? Is such a belief consistent with Christ and the Apostles actions? Tho you may refuse a gospel tract thousands of people over the years have not.

It was partially through a tract ministry that I came to Christ myself. I know others who also have. I have baptized people that did.

Which should we be more leary of? Going into the highways or into the neighborhood presenting Christ to those who will listen or those sitting home watching TV?

Or going to the local sports event. Or sitting on a pew week after week month after month year after year until they have no zeal left and perish with boredom?

[dizzyde]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

"Let the chips fall evangelism" kudos. Try it. Do it.

I like personal evangelism. I like Jesus and the Woman at the well evangelism. Both are worthy methods. We need both. We can't compartmentalize outreach and "winning souls" as an event where we pump each other up and pass out cards getting people to come to our church. We aren't a militia or coupe. We are the people of God. We aren't
"storming the streets" but we are going out to the "highways and biways, compelling them to come." Perspective of outreach.

Some love stamping their spiritual card and feeling good just by a church invitation, when they've shared nothing about Jesus. And even going out on the streets, we should be sure we are talking about Jesus, and Him crucified. Not just this cool experience and all the benefits they can get.

Caution, my brother, that's all I'm saying. If that rubs people wrong, sorry.

I am a big believer in your personal circle of people you encounter daily being your mission field. And I believe that your day to day walk with God and how you live in and with Him being your best testimony.

However, we have seen great results from going out into the neighborhoods around our church, I think a lot of it has to do with method. If you are going out with the mentality of "you need to come to our church", you probably are going to have limited results. If you go with the "what can I do to help you and do you have a need you would like me to pray about" mentality, it is amazing what response you will get.

I am thinking right now of a man and his wife who have been coming to our church faithfully the last few months, he was invited by a couple women to our Spanish church while he was mowing his front lawn. He told the pastor the first time that he came to a service that "God sent him two angels". You never know what the people you see on the street are needing at any given moment.

I think that we should be cautious about being too cautious when sharing Christ.

[Apocrypha]

Originally Posted by jeffadams

I think you should re-watch the video, these folks said Downs was there almost 2 years ago and taught them this, and they have grown from 30-200+ dont soung like throwing the spaghetti against the wall to me.

Your right, results speak volumes.

What about G.A. Mangun who prayed over every street corner in Alexandra in the early days and went door knocking for Sunday School kids? Or his son who helped break the racial barrier by building a bus ministry to poor black kids?

What about the early pentecostal pioneers who would hold services under a tent in a area for a revival and leave behind believers that had the potential to form a church? They did alot of person to person marketing when they came into town.

General Booth and the Salvation Army had a marching band right through the city to draw folks into a local church building (not much other entertainment back in that day).

Jerry Faldwell knocking every door in Lynchburg personally... the list is endless.

[jeffadams]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

"Let the chips fall evangelism" kudos. Try it. Do it.

I like personal evangelism. I like Jesus and the Woman at the well evangelism. Both are worthy methods. We need both. We can't compartmentalize outreach and "winning souls" as an event where we pump each other up and pass out cards getting people to come to our church. We aren't a militia or coupe. We are the people of God. We aren't
"storming the streets" but we are going out to the "highways and biways, compelling them to come." Perspective of outreach.

Some love stamping their spiritual card and feeling good just by a church invitation, when they've shared nothing about Jesus. And even going out on the streets, we should be sure we are talking about Jesus, and Him crucified. Not just this cool experience and all the benefits they can get.

Caution, my brother, that's all I'm saying. If that rubs people wrong, sorry.

It sounds more like you have an issue with the personalities that anything else....Pray for them.

[jeffadams]

Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Paul would warn that method, just as much as he would those who spoke in tongues corporately when a visitor came in. He said, regarding lack of order with tongues, that people would think you had gone mad. Paul cared about that. It may pump US up and make US feel better, but how effective is it?

I do like the people who go out in prayer teams, offering to pray with people. It's a much more humble approach that chanting, shouting, and hollering their doctrines.

I get a news letter each week from one of the people talked about here...he has had over 8000 first time guest this year in his revivals and baptized over 2500 of them...and claims there are churches all over like the Easterlings growing each week. He does say that some churches do not keep as many due to their lack of follow up.

I say God bless them all, they are winning souls and doing a great work! I am convicted when I read these reports, I want to do more!

[jeffadams]

Years ago I became critical of Bro Cole for his methods. I had never personally seen him teach or pray people through, I just became critical of what I had heard about him.

One day I just became bitter about it, and I went before the Lord and asked forgiveness, I began to pray for Bro Cole and ask God to bless him.

One day I had the opportunity to sit down with Bro Cole, I talked to him for hours and found out that none of the things I had heard were even close to the truth...wow, I could have been lost for believing a lie! God Help us to pray for those who we do not understand or truly know!

[Michael The Disciple]

Jeffery

It's interesting you interpret the Great Commission so exclusively to mean going into streets with banners and a bullhorn.

Where is the EXCLUSIVELY in what I said?

I said we should "go". It seems the early Church witnessed anywhere they were including on the streets.

15: Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.

Where was this ministry taking place? The streets!

But why would you say Im having an exclusiveness for going into the streets?

Did I also not say this?

Me

Does that mean we should NOT witness to our family, friends, neighbors, or co workers? Certainly not. Witness to the one your with!

peace, Michael

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by jeffadams

The reason you are not seeing family and friends and co-workers come in is because they are not ready, we need to quit choosing the harvest and go after the hungry! Thats what your missing by not going out on outreach...Jesus said to go for the lame, poor blind etc....

They're not hungry?

I think there's a fundamental worldview difference between some of us, and that's okay! Talk about choose the harvest, we choose who to talk to based on if we think they are hungry, will attend our church, etc... Instead of being Christ to all those around us. Showing Christ to them. That's not only a way to be successful and attract people (genuine love), but it's what we were commanded and discipled to do through the words of Christ.

I admit, my problem with outreach is all about getting as many bodies as we can through the doors (and we need that, we need to reach the masses), but that's often done at the expense and sacrifice of a Kingdom worldview that sees the lost around us everyday. Maybe those ones that know us really well (and all our setbacks, and it we are what we preach) would be more "hungry" if we were more patient and showed more Jesus.

Just food for thought.

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by Apocrypha

Your right, results speak volumes.

What about G.A. Mangun who prayed over every street corner in Alexandra in the early days and went door knocking for Sunday School kids? Or his son who helped break the racial barrier by building a bus ministry to poor black kids?

What about the early pentecostal pioneers who would hold services under a tent in a area for a revival and leave behind believers that had the potential to form a church? They did alot of person to person marketing when they came into town.

General Booth and the Salvation Army had a marching band right through the city to draw folks into a local church building (not much other entertainment back in that day).

Jerry Faldwell knocking every door in Lynchburg personally... the list is endless.

Worked fine for pioneers. Is that working today? In a metro location, will people see Christ in that? Just thinking about it, that's all. I'm not for the occasional crusade, or street ministry (I have to qualify that), but for some, that's all outreach is. That's what I'm saying. If we had a complete worldview of our role in the kingdom, we'd not only have more "results" but more would stick. Disciples stick around. Jesus was pretty slow with the 12.

It's Murrell Cornwell vs. Matt Maddix. Both methods have results and success. Just in the process, let's keep a mind for what we are doing. Passionately walking streets for a couple hours in a big group of fellow warriors is far easier than living and showing Christ in the break room at the job. It's not an either/or, just balancing it out. I know the "street ministry only" types. They feel like they are more righteous. I haven't done "street ministry" in a long, long time. However, I've disciples and won to the Lord entire families. Personally. And let's face it, this generation values relationship.

So let's do it all. Knock door -- not asking to "come to my church" or debate the Trinity, but to bind up the wounds of the broken, pray for the sick and declare the liberty of the Spirit. Let's do it all.. knock doors, hit the streets, talk to neighbors, feed homeless... underneath it all, the best way to present Christ, is to model Him in our lives. I don't "check in" for outreach on Saturday. I am outreach, every single day. We all each reach our cities according to what will work best, and all cities have a different culture. We are missionaries. Let's reach them. I apologize if it sounded like I was bashing. I'm not. I'm cautioning, and it may sound blanketed, and for that, I'm sorry.

We aren't crusaders, storming into people's houses, we are like Jesus, traveling from town to town, with good works, showing love, praying healing, and leading people to salvation. Let's do it!

[Jeffrey]

And yes, I'd rather pastor over-zealous "street warriors for Jesus" than apathetic bumps on a log.

I'll "storm the gates" with you, while making sure my "storming" is exercised passion for Jesus, and not a prideful showing of my own righteousness.

Caution. Can't go wrong with caution. It isn't saying "stop," it's saying "examine."