Just Having Church!!!!!!!!!!

[woodstock]

Emotionalism is not what makes me Pentecostal - there's no scriptural basis for a lot of what goes on in our churches; it's cultural. We lose a lot of intelligent people by overemphasizing demonstrative worship. A real outpouring of the Holy Ghost doesn't require a Hammond organ.

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by stmatthew

I do believe there are times that the "shout" is pushed at the end of a service, and Gods direction is discarded for the beat.

Originally Posted by woodstock

Emotionalism is not what makes me Pentecostal - there's no scriptural basis for a lot of what goes on in our churches; it's cultural. We lose a lot of intelligent people by overemphasizing demonstrative worship. A real outpouring of the Holy Ghost dosen't require a Hammond organ.

I'm glad to see that at least a few got my concern.

I've only been back around for 4 years after a 20 year backslide. I see the difference from when I was a teen and now. I fear that some who have not had the "privilege" of backsliding don't see how too much praise is "beat driven", not desire driven.

[freeatlast]

Originally Posted by woodstock

Emotionalism is not what makes me Pentecostal - there's no scriptural basis for a lot of what goes on in our churches; it's cultural. We lose a lot of intelligent people by overemphasizing demonstrative worship. A real outpouring of the Holy Ghost dosen't require a Hammond organ.

So true !

Music does influence our response to God. It helps us respond to God.

I think this might be seen in the fact that Saul called for music when he felt low or oppressed and the music lifted his spirit.

But I do agree, with some posters, that much of the "shockamoo girations" that are used to judge how spiritual one is, in some of our churches are largley driven by a 4 / 4 beat of a drum and a Hammond B3.

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

Always putting others down to build...

It's funny that in your previous post you did just this.

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

Good Lord - are you people Pentecostal? I like the beat - Actually - I LOVE this kind of Church - the Hammond Organ roaring, Piano keys running, drums beating about 100 MPH, bass beating, guitars strumming, tambourines shaking, people shoutin', running, jumping, dancing, praising and that is how I have always liked it. I AM PENTECOSTAL and I am NOT ASHAMED TO PRAISE GOD!

I HATE DEAD CHURCHES! Anything that is dead needs to be buried! I get sick of this judgmental attitude of dead heads that don't even know what praise is! IF you don't like it - don't watch it! Keep your mouth off of it - Your gonna need it one day!

This USED to be how Pentecostal Churches used to be. It used to be that way at almost EVERY UPC Church on Sunday night. Now it is so orchestrated and planned - you know exactly how - when - and where something is going to happen in a service. Some of it is worse than the A/G or COG and that is pretty bad!

It is still that way at Rod Parsleys, Tommy Bates, Clint Browns, TD Jakes and many other places. You wonder why his place is filled up with Ex-UPC? They got tired of going to the Professional DEAD Pentecostal Churches in Columbus and I have preached in them and THEY ARE DEAD as 4:00! DEAD - DEAD - DEAD!

You know what is filling some of these churches up - people are sick of going and hearing ONE GOD - like other people REALLY believe in more than ONE - water baptism - hair - pants and I LOVE THE UNITED PENTECOSTAL CHURCH so much! You should LOVE GOD! I got so sick of hearing that - over and over. I LOVE the UPC - like it was some great Saviour!
These guys Preach JESUS - the Savior - the Healer - The Deliverer - The Need Meeter - the Baptizer in the Holy Ghost.
Oh Lord - Now I have went and done it - stepped on the Sacred Cow!

Some of you DEAD HEADS need to blow your sign up - YOU should be arrested for FALSE ADVERTISING! Pentecostal - Give me a Break! You wouldn't know Pentecost if it slapped you across the face!

Man, sorry to hit a nerve, AB!!

Your post is very rude, my friend. You insert a bunch of what I call "hooey". You've taken a simple concern and blown it way out of proportion. This has nothing to do with not being "Pentecostal", which I didn't know was defined by beat-driven praise. I won't even come close to calling it worship!

I certainly love a good shouting service. I just don't care for it being "orchestrated" by the instruments. I've seen what looks like way too many people worked into a frenzy by the music. If it weren't for the beat, they'd be flat on their feet. Sorry if I think there's something wrong there.

Ehhhh, I don't even know why I'm going on. You believe what you want and more power to ya'!

If this woman can get on here and say what she said about Bishop Jakes - who pastors over 20,000 people - I can say she is dead and twice plucked up by the roots - DEAD and needs the HOLY GHOST!

First off, I'm not a woman. Second, I don't care how many Jakes pastors. Numbers don't impress me. I've just seen his mannerisms change over a few years. He walks around the crowd very much like Benny Hinn does -- pushing people down as he lays hands on them. I saw this very thing at La. Camp meeting two years ago as a very prominent evangelist, who has since left the UPC and gone to Austin, did the very same thing. I prayed for understanding as I watched him lay hands on people, all the while pushing them with his hand. He also had the "catch crew" following him so they could gather up the "slain". It didn't sit well in my spirit. I asked God to forgive me for any wrong attitude and spirit. Seeing the path he is taking, I think my "feeling" was right, but I still pray he is right and not veering off into sensationalism.

Watch men of God with an anointing and sensitivity to the Holy Ghost who lay hands on people. They don't "force" themselves on the person. Their hand does not "follow" the person to the ground or recoil when removed. But, I digress..............

[freeatlast]

Next time any of you find yourself in an all out shout down...just have all the musicians and singers stop. Even have them slowly taper off and come to a stop.

Then you'll find that 98% were a dancin' to the music and the hype.

Now that's fine if that's what ya all feeel ya need to do to keep foks saved, but hey, let's call it what it is.

It's not worship in most cases and at best, it's very shallow praise.

[woodstock]

I'm not opposed to the beat and the dance. I just think that too often it's mindless and insensitive to the leading of the spirit. My favorite pastor once called a halt to "Already Been to the Water" after a baptism; he told the organist there's a time for that, but we need to think about what just happened here, and not just celebrate. He then proceeded to give the best explanation and defense of Jesus name baptism that I've ever heard - what it really means to take on the name of the Lord. As a result, several more people were baptized that day - but no matter, by Atlanta Bishop's reckoning, we were deadhead non-Pentecostals... how tiresome.

[OGIA]

Originally Posted by freeatlast

Next time any of you find yourself in an all out shout down...just have all the musicians and singers stop. Even have them slowly taper off and come to a stop.

Then you'll find that 98% were a dancin' to the music and the hype.

Now that's fine if that's what ya all feeel ya need to do to keep foks saved, but hey, let's call it what it is.

It's not worship in most cases and at best, it's very shallow praise.

Precisely my point I tried to make in a couple of my earlier posts. I wonder what would have happened at the Jakes meeting if the "beat" suddenly stopped. You'd have a large percentage of those people frozen like statues in some very akward positions, sorta like that game we played as kids called "Freeze!"

[NLYP]

Originally Posted by AtlantaBishop

Good Lord - are you people Pentecostal? I like the beat - Actually - I LOVE this kind of Church - the Hammond Organ roaring, Piano keys running, drums beating about 100 MPH, bass beating, guitars strumming, tambourines shaking, people shoutin', running, jumping, dancing, praising and that is how I have always liked it. I AM PENTECOSTAL and I am NOT ASHAMED TO PRAISE GOD!

I HATE DEAD CHURCHES! Anything that is dead needs to be buried! I get sick of this judgmental attitude of dead heads that don't even know what praise is! IF you don't like it - don't watch it! Keep your mouth off of it - Your gonna need it one day!

This USED to be how Pentecostal Churches used to be. It used to be that way at almost EVERY UPC Church on Sunday night. Now it is so orchestrated and planned - you know exactly how - when - and where something is going to happen in a service. Some of it is worse than the A/G or COG and that is pretty bad!

It is still that way at Rod Parsleys, Tommy Bates, Clint Browns, TD Jakes and many other places. You wonder why his place is filled up with Ex-UPC? They got tired of going to the Professional DEAD Pentecostal Churches in Columbus and I have preached in them and THEY ARE DEAD as 4:00! DEAD - DEAD - DEAD!
You know what is filling some of these churches up - people are sick of going and hearing ONE GOD - like other people REALLY believe in more than ONE - water baptism - hair - pants and I LOVE THE UNITED PENTECOSTAL CHURCH so much! You should LOVE GOD! I got so sick of hearing that - over and over. I LOVE the UPC - like it was some great Saviour!
These guys Preach JESUS - the Savior - the Healer - The Deliverer - The Need Meeter - the Baptizer in the Holy Ghost.
Oh Lord - Now I have went and done it - stepped on the Sacred Cow!

If this woman can get on here and say what she said about Bishop Jakes - who pastors over 20,000 people - I can say she is dead and twice plucked up by the roots - DEAD and needs the HOLY GHOST!

Some of you DEAD HEADS need to blow your sign up - YOU should be arrested for FALSE ADVERTISING! Pentecostal - Give me a Break! You wouldn't know Pentecost if it slapped you across the face!

Im gonna say this...and then hush because we leave for our cruise today.....and I want to have a good day..

But Atlanta!!!!!!
































YOU are so right on its scary!

[NLYP]

Originally Posted by SISTER Murphy

Ah, yes, the pontification of reprobation. The men you say preach 'Jesus' preach the flesh. I don't wonder even a little bit why the churches pastored by those backslidden fellas are full: it's because they appeal to the flesh. And, so what if TD Jakes pastors 20,000 people? Too bad ole' Noah only had eight folks in his congregation. He musta had 'dead church'. Probably too much of that mean old repentance preaching turned folks off.

I am Pentecostal to my core, mister, the real, old fashioned, apostolic, tongue-talking, singing, shouting, holiness believing, sin hating, evangelistic kind of Pentecostal that has something far beyond a cranked up emotional high once week when the racket is just right! And, I don't think you would know real Pentecost anymore, not even if it bit you in the hinder parts.

Sister Murphy...
I am pentecostal to my core to and a General Licensed minister in the United Pentecostal Church. Been in it all my life and will never leave. 5 Genereations of my family have called it home....


BUT


YOU ARE WAY WRONG in the upper part of your post!
WAY WAY WAY WRONG!

[OGIA]

Isn't that funny? I think she's "right on".


That's from someone who knew Pentecost as a teen, was in the world for 20 years and then returned to see the effects that music has had on the movement. I think the music is head and shoulders above anything going and even use it as an attractant to my friends. But, that doesn't mean it's right. I should be telling them to come to my church to be healed and delivered, not to be rocked. Yet, I still do because the supernatural is not being manifested nearly enough to be an attractant. I am praying that we (I) seek that and not the beat. For in the supernatural is where God is, not in the music.

Too bad people don't step back and take a look at some of our services to see how music driven they are. If it weren't for the music, the place would be DEAD! Too bad we don't look to the One who is LIFE to energize our services as much as your (and my) grand- and great grandparents probably did.

I challenge you to take a seat off the dance floor one Sunday night at POA. I've been there, so I know what I speak of. Just try it.....with an open mind and after prayer.