He punished based on His spoken Word. That doesn't change the fact that we are no longer under the Law but under Grace. The only Laws that I can rightfully follow are those spoken in His Word in the NT. I do not see where I am condemned under any spoken law carried over into the NT.
His spoken word is His law. What I'm trying to get you to see here is that God's law is not limited to the Law of Moses. Even if you want to claim that only the New Testament applies to you, fornication is any sexual activity (including one's thoughts) that occur outside of opposite-sex marriage. Further, any time you look lustfully at another man, you have already committed adultery with him in your heart. Where you are condemned in the New Testament is in your fornication and your adulterous heart. The fact that Romans 1 lists homosexual behavior among a whole host of other sins also condemns you. Further, since homosexuality is referred to in Romans 1 as a "vile affection," your homosexual attraction is condemned at the very least as being something contrary to God's created design. In addition, the New Testament tells us that homosexuals (more literally, men who sexually cohabit with men) will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Answer some questions for me:
1. Do you acknowledge that God created male and female?
2. Do you acknowledge that opposite-sex marriage (the covenant relationship, not some ceremony), by which I mean opposite-sex mating (which includes the sexual/romantic relationship, not merely procreation), is God's created design for male and female?
3. Do you acknowledge that when God created male and female (referring to the first two humans), He did not create them with homosexual attraction (orientation)?
4. Do you acknowledge that homosexual attraction did not exist in the Garden of Eden and, therefore, that it came to exist subsequent to Adam's sin?
4. Do you acknowledge that Jesus equated the lustful thought with adultery?
5. Do you acknowledge that all sexual activity (including the thoughts) outside of opposite-sex marriage is fornication and, therefore, sin?
Strongs defintion of fornication NT:4202
porneia (por-ni'-ah); from NT:4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively, idolatry:
I do not see where this lines up with your definition above.
Harlotry is any sexual activity outside of opposite-sex marriage.
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So if orientation is not genetic then what makes heterosexuality "natural" and homosexuality "unnatural?"
God's created design for male and female.
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Are you willing to say that the 1:100 children born intersexed need to be healed and must repent because they are contrary, by nature, to God's created design?
Yes. They need to be healed because their condition is contrary to God's created design. They must repent if they choose to rebel against God's created design by embracing their intersexed state and claiming it is God's created design. Of course, you are presenting a red herring* here since being born "intersexed" (for those who don't know what that is, it's being born with both male and female sexual organs) has nothing whatsoever to do with sexual/romantic attraction.
*something that distracts attention from the real issue
Strongs definition for effeminate (NT:3120)
malakos (mal-ak-os'); of uncertain affinity; soft, i.e. fine (clothing); figuratively, a catamite:
Vines Expository Dictionary defintion of effeminate (NT:3120)
malakos, "soft, soft to the touch" (Lat., mollis, Eng., "mollify," "emollient," etc.), is used (a) of raiment, Matt 11:8 (twice); Luke 7:25; (b) metaphorically, in a bad sense, 1 Cor 6:9, "effeminate," not simply of a male who practices forms of lewdness, but persons in general, who are guilty of addiction to sins of the flesh, voluptuous.
cat·a·mite /ˈkætəˌmaɪt/ Pronunciation Key
Pronunciation[kat-uh-mahyt]
–noun
a boy or youth who is in a sexual relationship with a man.
Thank you.
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Col 2 [8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. [13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; [14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross
I'm not sure what judgment you are referring to but I do know that the ordinances of the OT which others try to force on NT believers were nailed to the cross and have been blotted out.
I attend a Seventh Day Adventist University and am continuouslly told that I must honor the 7th Day Sabbath and that I should not eat meat. I say to them the same thing I say to anyone who tries to judge me against a backdrop of OT Law, "because Christ's sacrifice at Calvary I am no longer under the Law."
Ever wonder why Jesus told one thief he was going to be with him in paradise but not the other? Ever wonder why Jesus begged the Father to forgive them that crucified him but not the thief who mocked Jesus?
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does this mean you think God made a mistake? Or allowed such a deviation from his original plan that someone would be born in oppositon to his Word?
just asking...?
That people are born with birth defects (which hermaphroditism is) is contrary to God's created design. God allows such things to happen because such things are part of the damage that Adam's sin caused to the whole of Creation. Sexual/romantic attraction (heterosexual, homosexual or otherwise) is not something with which one is born; it develops during childhood. The point, of course, is that just because something exists that is contrary to God's created design doesn't give us the right to embrace it, celebrate it, be identified by it, etc.
cat·a·mite /ˈkætəˌmaɪt/ Pronunciation Key
Pronunciation[kat-uh-mahyt]
–noun
a boy or youth who is in a sexual relationship with a man.
Thank you.
The word that 1 Corinthians 6:10 uses for homosexual isn't the one translated "effeminate" but the one translated in the KJV as "abusers of themselves with mankind." The Greek word (arsenokoites) is a compound word that combines "male" with a euphemism for sexual cohabitation. Thus, the word is most literally translated "men who sexually cohabit with men."
Strongs defintion of fornication NT:4202
porneia (por-ni'-ah); from NT:4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively, idolatry:
I do not see where this lines up with your definition above.
So if orientation is not genetic then what makes heterosexuality "natural" and homosexuality "unnatural?"
Mankind was NOT created a-sexual, as some of God's creatures were. God's created sexual design for humans is clearly seen in their anatomy. This is not rocket science. I am not going to get into a part "A" fits part "B" discussion here, but it does not take someone with a special understanding to figure this out. This is an argument from design and cannot be ignored.
God in His infinite wisdom did things the way He did for a reason. His reason! All the explaining in the world cannot change God's created design...all the excuses in the world will not change God's created design.
It is the way He made them in the beginning...it is the way they remain. Therefore, any other way IS unnatural and by the very nature of the word is perverted.
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"Those who go after the "Sauls" among us often slay the Davids among us." Gene Edwards
God didn't create Adam and Eve, He created Adam. However, Adam desired a help meat so God created the animals but no help meat was found with them. So, God created another human being from the flesh and blood of man. It was then that Adam was satisifed. What if Adam hadn't been satisifed with Eve? The entire creation of woman was based on Adam's desires not God's divine will. If it was based on God's divine will then the animals should have been sufficient for Adam. God is a relational God and responds to each of us individuals.
The animals weren't created for Adam. And yes, God did make both male and female animals..one for the other. Animals weren't meant by God to be sufficient for Adam. He was put over the animals...superior to them, not equal.
The Bible doesn't say that Adam desired a help meet as you claim but that God said:
Gen. 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
It was God's will that man have a help meet, not man's will.
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I do not deny that homosexual relationships do not reflect the relationship between Adam and Eve. But then again, not much does line up with God's initial creation since the fall of man. God did not create inersexed individuals at Creation yet they exist today. According to the initial creation who are these intersexed individuals allow to marry and have intimate relationships with? Are they suppose to be defined by their chromosomal sex or their genitalia?
Also, may I point out that the term gender is a sociological term which is not sex-specific. I assume you were referring to biological sex.
I do live in the same world as you and would strongly argue that intimacy can be and often is experienced without having sexual intercourse.
Bringing in chromosomal anomalies which are rare isn't an excuse for you to practice homosexuality. Even hermaphrodites, who possess the genitalia of both sexes prefer one or the other, depending on their genetic makeup that determines if they are masculine or feminine.
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Is there one, just one, place in the bible where God speaks of the institution of Marriage as being between a man, and a man??
The homosexual issue is, imho, something that not only underminds Gods design of male and female, but in the process corrupts the relationship of Christ and his Bride.
The fact that procreation happens between a male and female is enough to know that God designed man to be with woman, and not with another man.
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