Why Is The "Christmas Spirit" So Different?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sabby

MB, it could be frustration due to disagreement.

The key to that scripture is "offered to idols"

What I do at Christmas time is not offered to idols, though I will confess to mailing cards, preparing a celebratory meal (in honor of the Lord Jesus) that my WHOLE family can partake of, and even wanting to bless my loved ones with gifts. My tree or stepping on a crack playing hopscotch, or twisting the stem off an apple...are not offered to idols.

Right.

[Sabby]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Amen. The enemy is trying to eradicate Jesus from Christmas, so we need to push Jesus more and more at Christmastime.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Truthseeker

I don't remember none of that ion romans 14. Isn't talking about meats.

food and days

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

I will comment on this. I'm not looking for an argument but I see this applied often and I don't think that the application is true to the intent of the scripture nor to the point being made.

The scripture speaks of eating meat offered to idols and that it isn't a problem but if someone is weak then we should refrain from it for their sakes... in so many words.

Now I am aware of Brother Blume's notion that these practices have been in christianity so long that their pagan origins are no longer an issue but I am simply speaking to the inference that was made by him on these scriptures.

So... let's label a few things.

Meat offered to idols... this is a by product of a pagan practice... a food product which is solely there because of a pagan practice.

Offerings to idols... these are ACTUAL pagan practices.

I can go into this deeper but I am going to try and keep this short. So lets get straight to the point and I'll see if I can bypass lengthy discussion.

Paul is not saying taking part in pagan rituals or practices is okay. Paul would never say... if we worship God by making sacrifices like the pagans do that's okay unless your weaker brother has a problem with it then you should refrain. He is making that statement at all.

And yet the things we discuss along the lines of christmas are discussions of actual pagan practices that were "converted" to christianity.

If we were to take what Paul said and apply it to something that we could relate to today it would be this...

It's okay to buy halloween candy as long as it isn't an offense to your weaker brother. We all know that it's nothing but candy and there is no harm in eating it... it even goes on sale REAL cheap right after halloween. But if your brother is offended then you would do well to refrain.

This is in direct keeping with what Paul was saying. He is saying this is a byproduct of a pagan practice. You aren't taking part in the practice you are just taking part in the great food prices brought about by said paganism.

To say that Paul was saying that the practice itself is okay is beyond the scope, intent and purpose of the statement Paul was making.

Bumping for MB...

[Sam]

Let's remember that whether we are Grinches or Scrooges or pagans or heathens (heatherns?) here, we are all brothers and sisters who love the Lord and are doing our best to serve Him and lighten up on each other where we disagree.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Meat offered to idols... this is a by product of a pagan practice... a food product which is solely there because of a pagan practice.

Offerings to idols... these are ACTUAL pagan practices.

Paul's point was that eating meats offered to idols was simply eating meats. In reality, there is one God, and for the person who knows that, eating the mets has no bearing on anything done wrong. Holidays are the same. Nothing is done in intending actual pagan worship.

[Digging4Truth]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Paul's point was that eating meats offered to idols was simply eating meats. In reality, there is one God, and for the person who knows that, eating the mets has no bearing on anything done wrong.

This is indeed what Paul was saying.

Originally Posted by mfblume

Holidays are the same. Nothing is done in intending actual pagan worship.

I don't see Paul saying this.

I don't see where he ever gave an okay concerning actual practices & rituals. Only to the use of the byproducts. This seems as clear as day.

But... you don't see it that way and that isn't going to change.

Dead subject.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Originally Posted by Digging4Truth

Okay... thanks.

I am an odd cookie in the realm of non christmas practicing Christians. I have never attended a church that preached against christmas in my life and I participated in the holiday until my early 30's. My eldest daughter had her last christmas when she was 2 years old. My other 2 have never participated in the holiday.

The interesting thing, to me, is that when my daughter was 2 and Christmas was nearing my wife and I had been so busy writing, producing & putting on the Christmas play at the church that we had not found the time to buy a tree and it was December 24th. We finally decided that, even at that late hour, we would see if we could find a tree.

We did... and we decorated it etc and at the behest of my MIL who told us we'd better go out and get that baby some presents... we did so. (She didn't show much interest in the presents but she did LOVE the cardboard boxes they came in. )

As I stated I had never been in a church that preached against christmas. I had always celebrated christmas and had never had a thought in my mind that we should do anything but celebrate christmas.

That evening as we sat in our living room with the lights out, music playing and the christmas lights blinking I uttered a phrase so matter of factly that it really escaped our notice at that time. I sat there and said "Someday this will be as wrong for us as halloween is today."

That was our last Christmas. A series of circumstances began to come into motion beginning in February of the next year that led to us never picking up the practice again. I have to admit that in the infancy of my conviction the pagan origins were the basis that I focused on. There was a need built in that it be a sin... and wrong... because in Christianity we don't hold convictions that won't send us to hell. We do everything that doesn't send us to hell.

But over the years my conviction and love for the conviction has grown, deepened and centered itself to where I am today.

I am free. (Please... no one need to make a comment on that... this is just a statement of how I feel)

When I watch the chaos and madness of the season I am increasingly glad the hold on me is no longer there. It is frustrating that you can't go buy a wrench because of the huge masses of people and I can't even listen to good ole contemporary christian music on the way there.

My parents fought me tooth & toe nail but now state that I couldn't drag them back kicking and screaming. I am thankful for the freedom we have from the craziness that is inherent with the celebration. I get together with my family because we all have time off. I also get together with them in the summer some time and we always have fun... it's just the result of family getting together.

Some people used to smoke cigarettes and if they say "I am free" it isn't because they don't smoke anymore. It is because they don't smoke anymore AND they don't want to smoke anymore.

If one doesn't smoke anymore and yet still want to smoke... they are smoke free... but they aren't yet free. People who refrain from celebrating and yet still yearn to celebrate will seldom ever be free.

They may be free from certain practices.
They may be free from created unnecessary debt.
They may be free from a list of required gift giving.

But until one is free from the desire... one is never free.

I repeat... I am free. And it is a wonderful feeling.

I don't require anyone else follow in my footsteps and I don't condemn those who don't follow in my footsteps. God led me here. Not man... not condemnation... not even hell, fire & brimstone preaching.

And as I look around I have to give Him thanks because this is a beautiful place where I reside and I could have never, ever found it on my own.

I can respect this.

The thing that bothers me though (and not saying this necessarily applies to you D4T) is that it seems that people can't just feel that way about Christmas for themselves. They generally feel the need to belittle everyone else for partaking in, and enjoying, Christmas.

[Truthseeker]

Originally Posted by Sam

food and days

We are not discussing days

[Cindy]

D4T, I have decided the answer to your question, it just is.