New Birth Prior to Pentecost

[deltaguitar]

Originally Posted by DividedThigh

the cross separates the ot, fromt the nt, and the day of pentecost was the promised day the powere was sent to the church, therefore can rightly be interpreted as the kickoff of the new kingdom of god, as the church, dt

So, does this mean that people could be born again only after Pentecost?

[Sam]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Ok, then could people be baptized in the Holy Ghost before Pentecost.

As far as I know, the term "baptism" in reference to a work of the Holy Spirit is first mentioned by John the Baptist. He said, "Just like I am baptizing/dipping/immersing/soaking/overwhelming/saturating you in water, Someone coming after me will baptize/dip/immerse/soak/overwhelm/saturate you in the Holy Spirit." Mark 1:8

Folks in the Old Testament experienced the Holy Spirit in these ways:
--They were filled with the Spirit Exodus 31:1-6
--The Spirit was placed upon them or put upon them or rested upon them Numbers 1:25-29
--They were full of the Spirit Deuteronomy 34:9
--the Spirit of the Lord moved upon them Judges 13:25
--the Spirit of God came upon them 1 Samuel 10:6-10
--the Spirit of the Lord clothed Himself with Gideon, Judges 6:34
--the Spirit of Christ was in them 1 Peter 1:11
--God spoke about pouring out His Spirit Isaiah 44:3, Joel 2:28, 29

There may be other terms but these come immediately to mind.
But a "baptism" in the Spirit was not mentioned (unless you take pouring water on someone as a baptism)

In my opinion, the difference between the Old Testament work of the Spirit and the New Testament work of the Spirit is:
--in the Old Testament most folks did not realize the Holy Spirit was with them and even in them. They did not have that assurance of the Holy Spirit coming in to abide and seal us unto the day of redemption that we have in the New Testament. The Holy Spirit was poured out or came upon or empowered individuals and they prophesied, worked miracles, etc in the Old Testament but those people were rare. In the New Testament we can all have the Spirit poured out upon us or come upon us, or fill us, and we can prophesy, speak with tongues, work miracles, etc. The Holy Ghost baptism which is available to everyone in the NT is like that special anointing of the Spirit that only came on specially called individuals in the OT.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

The premise is that born of the spirit according, to many Oneness Pentecostals, is accompanied by speaking in tongues. This occurred on the day of Pentecost. My initial post asks the questions; did the new birth happen prior to Pentecost? If so, then doesn't this cause a problem for the folks that say that born of the spirit is speaking about the "baptism of the holy ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues."

The Spirit gives utterance. That does not mean "born of water is baptism an born of the spirit is speaking in tongues"...

Any more than "being born of the water means having to dry your hair"

And so if someone was born of the Spirit prior TO Pentecost that does not mean that NOW post Pentecost being born of the Spirit is evidence by tongues

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by deltaguitar

Ok, then could people be baptized in the Holy Ghost before Pentecost.

some prophets had the Spirit, but the bible seems to indicate being baptized with the Spirit was a new thing..

Additionally they had the Spirit for the purpose of prophecying, not to save them.

In the OT they kept the laws and ordinances of God. Those that had genuine faith were not born again in their life time.

[Sam]

In my opinion

and it is probably a minority opinion among Oneness Pentecostals

A person is justified/saved/born again when he asks Jesus Christ into his/her heart. At that time Jesus comes in as the Holy Spirit. There are also subsequent experiences in the Spirit that may be called:
--being filled (or refilled) with the Holy Spirit
--being baptized in the Holy Spirit
--the Spirit coming upon or falling upon
--"receiving" (opening up to/ acknowledging/ surrendering to/ accepting) the Holy Spirit in your life
--the release of the Holy Spirit
--the empowering of the Holy Spirit
--and some other terms we may use

In my opinion:
-- when a person gets saved or born again, the Holy Spirit comes in and abides like a pilot light, but when a person is baptized in the Spirit that pilot light becomes a fire or flame
--when a person gets saved or born again, the Holy Spirit becomes a well or fountain of living water within (John 4:14 and Isaiah 12:1-3), but when a person is baptized in the Spirit that well or fountain becomes a rushing, gushing river of living water (John 7:37-39)