just in need of some different opinions and advice

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by The Lemon

The leadership part of this situation is serious on a number of levels. If you feel called by the Lord to do anything in the way of leadership, then there can be serious emotional and spiritual ramifications to a decision like this. If you stay, I can see the part of the hypocrisy, and while you will be able to use your talents, you will also feel uncomfortable and maybe even feel like a liar on some levels. At the same time, finding something "new" is equally as challenging, and the truth is there will at some point be a real pull to just abandon the "call" altogether.

Of course your marriage is the most important thing, and really is your first "ministry". No body can give you the answer, and I'm sure you know that. What is important is preserving your integrity and continuing to build your family. You will recieve alot of advice here, but the best thing I can offer is my prayers....I have been where you are..only in reverse - it is me that has wanted to stay out of fear, rejection, ect. - whereas my my wife would not have the issues with leaving that I would.

Above all else...we must be saved.

Praying for you!

Good post!

[Godsdrummer]

Ok

Having read almost all the post from page one I did not see any who truely has gone through what you are going through. But I will say take all the positive adivice given it all was good, throw the rest away it was garabage. I mean that too, if the advice has some negative forget it. I say this because I did go thru just what you are going through. Only I was the one raised in UPCI. I carried license and was pastoring etc. So not only did I have leadership in the church but also in the organization. Now for the bad news it took me 15 years from the time I first saw the hypocricy of the standards, before I left UPCI.

So take this time to increse your relationship with God, always check your own spirit.

I have much more to say just realized I have to get ready for work will try and get back on tonight.

God Bless and keep the faith.

[192281]

Originally Posted by The Lemon

The leadership part of this situation is serious on a number of levels. If you feel called by the Lord to do anything in the way of leadership, then there can be serious emotional and spiritual ramifications to a decision like this. If you stay, I can see the part of the hypocrisy, and while you will be able to use your talents, you will also feel uncomfortable and maybe even feel like a liar on some levels. At the same time, finding something "new" is equally as challenging, and the truth is there will at some point be a real pull to just abandon the "call" altogether.

Of course your marriage is the most important thing, and really is your first "ministry". No body can give you the answer, and I'm sure you know that. What is important is preserving your integrity and continuing to build your family. You will recieve alot of advice here, but the best thing I can offer is my prayers....I have been where you are..only in reverse - it is me that has wanted to stay out of fear, rejection, ect. - whereas my my wife would not have the issues with leaving that I would.

Above all else...we must be saved.

Praying for you!

THANK YOU ALL FOR THE PRAYERS, they are much appreciated.

[Godsdrummer]

As I was saying it took 15 years for me to leave UPC. Part of the reason was my wife was still steeped in the standards. It took her most of that time to come to see that they were not bible. God was good to me I was able to still be apart of the ministry or minister where ever we were over the years.

So what I am saying is to continue to seek God and pray your wife will come around in time. Until then continue to lead or minister as much as you are allowed, but make sure you do not try and tear down another mans ministry for God will not honour that. God will bless you for submitting where you are. The most important thing is to build the kindgdom. I would sujest starting a home church if you don't want to take people you are working with to the assembly your attending. As you grow in teaching in your home your leadership will bring your wife around sooner.

God Bless hope we have been a help

[RandyWayne]

There are several men here who's wives have never broke from the Svengali control of their pastors, and even though they (the men) wish to leave, remain in the UPC because of their better halfs.

I will repeat again that scripture does NOT say "Wives, submit to your pastor!", rather it says husband, and even then it is not a Master/Servant relationship. I have no idea what advice to give since I have a very independent wife who I do not need to show false doctrine too. Rather she usually points it out even before I see it.

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by pastorrick1959

getting closer to worldliness is never getting closer to god . the trend will continue from what i have seen in the past ,till nothing is wrong as long as we say we love the lord .

i understand you dont agree with every standard they hold ,,,,but have got to have some ,,our flesh wants to get out of control ,,i gave up things yra ago i dont consider wrong ,, but i felt my denial to myself would bring me closer to god ....it has and i aint sorry .
many in this day are wanting to live like hell and go to heaven ,,wont work that way .not saying that is you ,,,, but there are those out there that are ./...

Getting away from the subject at hand are we? He has already studied the word and knows those things are not in the word. His wife agrees too.

For those that want to be self sacrificing that is ok. But don't condem others that realize it is better not to add to the word one jot or titil. We are adomnished several times in scripture that we are not to add to or take away from the words. Yet standards are an addition to Gods word. They are our own self definition of what we think holiness is. Just as the Pharisee had made following the law a tradition. This is Idolitry.

Eve made this mistake when she spoke with Satan (the serpent) and it got her in trouble just as it does today. Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
God did not say you shall not touch it. What did Eve think this would help keep her from sinning? When we changed Gods word just the slitest bit we leave ourselves open to the onslought of Satan. Paul says study.... that we need not be ashamed... Too many don't just leave your church when they find false doctrine they lose faith in God altogether. This atitude of self sacrifice for God does not further the kingdom it hurts it in the long run.
I gladly will respond to any coments on this subject but please do so through a different thread or my private messege
Godsdrummer

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

There are several men here who's wives have never broke from the Svengali control of their pastors, and even though they (the men) wish to leave, remain in the UPC because of their better halfs.

I will repeat again that scripture does NOT say "Wives, submit to your pastor!", rather it says husband, and even then it is not a Master/Servant relationship. I have no idea what advice to give since I have a very independent wife who I do not need to show false doctrine too. Rather she usually points it out even before I see it.

Randy
you are very right wives are to submit to their husbands, but I don't beleive they remain in UPC primarily because of the control of the pastors. It is hard to leave something that has been drilled into you. It is a sort of brain washing. Sometimes the best one can hope for is the set the stage for the next generation.

I have four daughters and one son. When I first saw the flaws in standards 20 years ago I began to speak of this in my home. for the next 15 years my daughters still wore dresses did not cut their hair and all the rest. My eldest even went CLC in Stockton for a year and half. My children drew away first and they helped my wife make the change. Today none of my family are in any UPC church yet my children are stronger in God than they ever were in a legalistic church. That goes for my childrens spouses too. And it gets better all my grandchildren are sensitive to God at a tender age.

If 192281 will be patient God will in the right time give his wife strength to leave friends, and family to lead instead of follow.

[Above & Beyond]

Originally Posted by 192281

So the question:
My wife and I both completely agree and are on the same level but she doesn’t want to leave because it’s what she knows and has always done. She is scared her family will be angry and she is scared to leave tradition.
Anyone been here before that can give some unbiased advice.
Thanks.

Twice you say your wife is scared. She may be bound by this fear and is in need of deliverance from it. Pray for your wife to be delivered from fear.

One thing I experienced from being in a UPC church was how great a stronghold fear has on the members (especially on the women).

[StillStanding]

Originally Posted by Above & Beyond

Twice you say your wife is scared. She may be bound by this fear and is in need of deliverance from it. Pray for your wife to be delivered from fear.

One thing I experienced from being in a UPC church was how great a stronghold fear has on the members (especially on the women).

Not only on the women, but the men also! Growing up, fear was my biggest motivator in church. I didn't want to be lost!

[Godsdrummer]

Originally Posted by Mr. Steinway

Not only on the women, but the men also! Growing up, fear was my biggest motivator in church. I didn't want to be lost!

And now you are lost LOL just joking Steinway I know that feeling. I could tell the hundreds dare I say thousands of times, the fear was instealed everytime I went to church. "Don't sin the rapture could happen and if your not ready you will split the pit."