Becoming An Ex-Pentecostal

[Revelationist]

Originally Posted by Rico

It seems to me that there has to be a line ex-pentecostals cross in their minds that takes them from someone who is questioning the things they've been taught to someone who no longer believes truth.

I was raised being taught that we had the truth, only to grow up and discover that you don't have truth, you walk in truth.

I prefer just being called a Christian.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Pel, you have quite the story. I know it is still hurtful to you. I am glad you can talk about it objectively.

How do you find yourself relating to the Pentecostal Church today? Have you managed to regain some or any of the former respect you had for the church and it's leaders?

I have tremendous respect for the "official" leadership. I knew many of these men and worked with them for years. As I said, I let them down in many ways by remaining silent and just shuffling off the scene.

One of the reasons I remained silent was because the doctrinal questions I had made me feel isolated from them. Another reason was - and this is where I really dropped the ball - I tended to lump everyone in leadership into a "them" category and I failed to see them as individual Christians attempting to do some difficult jobs.

For a few years "after" I just did my best to lay low and stay away. As it was, things turned out in such a way that I was entirely vindicated and my persecutors are no all mostly gone - and a couple have even been "converted" to seeing things from my view; except where their own wrong doings were involved. They still attempt to justify themselves rather than seek justification in Jesus Christ.

I am on very good terms with most of the local district board. There's one fellow, an old friend, who still doesn't acknowledge my existence. He was never even close to what went on before and probably has no idea about the details. He's just one of those WPF types whose wires fry whenever they're confronted with something outside their comfy little paradigms.

I don't attend any church regularly though my wife and kids do and we support it financially. My work schedule is chaotic and involves a lot of afterhours and weekend work. That, plus the fact that the answers I give to questions are not the things a lot of people want to hear in the UPC means that it's probably best that I lay low.

I bear no grudge against the UPC itself or its leaders. I have important concerns about the social conditions in many places and the way that the gospel is presented and sometimes even misrepresented. The UPC was my whole life for most of my life. But because of the way it's built - the whole church crumbled around me when an Oklahoma preacher showed up wanting something from his secretary that his wife refused to give him.

Why is the UPC (and the Apostolic movement in general) designed to mess up my life in so many important ways just because someone of greater importance than me wanted kinky sex? Why was any of that even any of my business?

The answer is: Because that's the way we're designed to interact. We have such a preoccupation with the bedrooms of others that a few have a preoccupation with making their bedrooms important throughout the movement. This part still grosses me out.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I have tremendous respect for the "official" leadership. I knew many of these men and worked with them for years. As I said, I let them down in many ways by remaining silent and just shuffling off the scene.

One of the reasons I remained silent was because the doctrinal questions I had made me feel isolated from them. Another reason was - and this is where I really dropped the ball - I tended to lump everyone in leadership into a "them" category and I failed to see them as individual Christians attempting to do some difficult jobs.

For a few years "after" I just did my best to lay low and stay away. As it was, things turned out in such a way that I was entirely vindicated and my persecutors are no all mostly gone - and a couple have even been "converted" to seeing things from my view; except where their own wrong doings were involved. They still attempt to justify themselves rather than seek justification in Jesus Christ.

I am on very good terms with most of the local district board. There's one fellow, an old friend, who still doesn't acknowledge my existence. He was never even close to what went on before and probably has no idea about the details. He's just one of those WPF types whose wires fry whenever they're confronted with something outside their comfy little paradigms.

I don't attend any church regularly though my wife and kids do and we support it financially. My work schedule is chaotic and involves a lot of afterhours and weekend work. That, plus the fact that the answers I give to questions are not the things a lot of people want to hear in the UPC means that it's probably best that I lay low.

I bear no grudge against the UPC itself or its leaders. I have important concerns about the social conditions in many places and the way that the gospel is presented and sometimes even misrepresented. The UPC was my whole life for most of my life. But because of the way it's built - the whole church crumbled around me when an Oklahoma preacher showed up wanting something from his secretary that his wife refused to give him.

Why is the UPC (and the Apostolic movement in general) designed to mess up my life in so many important ways just because someone of greater importance than me wanted kinky sex? Why was any of that even any of my business?

The answer is: Because that's the way we're designed to interact. We have such a preoccupation with the bedrooms of others that a few have a preoccupation with making their bedrooms important throughout the movement. This part still grosses me out.

Thank you for the reply.

Perhaps I am naive, but I really don't understand this bolded part.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Originally Posted by Rico

How about that one where they talk about speaking in tongues? Is that apostolic enough for ya?

I
I am at a place where I don't believe speaking in tongues is essential for salvation. Never will be an ex-pentecostal, but will probably be considered to be ex-UPCI.
I started questioning when I saw what I saw going on with the tongues in some of the churches I've attended, though I did question standards first.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by 1399

I
I am at a place where I don't believe speaking in tongues is essential for salvation. Never will be an ex-pentecostal, but will probably be considered to be ex-UPCI.
I started questioning when I saw what I saw going on with the tongues in some of the churches I've attended.

What did you see going on?

If you're going to dismiss tongues as being the initial evidence of the initial infilling of the Holy Ghost, you would do better to be convinced of it because of what is written in the word of God and not because of what you see in church.

[live4him]

Originally Posted by pelathais

I have tremendous respect for the "official" leadership. I knew many of these men and worked with them for years. As I said, I let them down in many ways by remaining silent and just shuffling off the scene.

One of the reasons I remained silent was because the doctrinal questions I had made me feel isolated from them. Another reason was - and this is where I really dropped the ball - I tended to lump everyone in leadership into a "them" category and I failed to see them as individual Christians attempting to do some difficult jobs.

For a few years "after" I just did my best to lay low and stay away. As it was, things turned out in such a way that I was entirely vindicated and my persecutors are no all mostly gone - and a couple have even been "converted" to seeing things from my view; except where their own wrong doings were involved. They still attempt to justify themselves rather than seek justification in Jesus Christ.

I am on very good terms with most of the local district board. There's one fellow, an old friend, who still doesn't acknowledge my existence. He was never even close to what went on before and probably has no idea about the details. He's just one of those WPF types whose wires fry whenever they're confronted with something outside their comfy little paradigms.

I don't attend any church regularly though my wife and kids do and we support it financially. My work schedule is chaotic and involves a lot of afterhours and weekend work. That, plus the fact that the answers I give to questions are not the things a lot of people want to hear in the UPC means that it's probably best that I lay low.

I bear no grudge against the UPC itself or its leaders. I have important concerns about the social conditions in many places and the way that the gospel is presented and sometimes even misrepresented. The UPC was my whole life for most of my life. But because of the way it's built - the whole church crumbled around me when an Oklahoma preacher showed up wanting something from his secretary that his wife refused to give him.

Why is the UPC (and the Apostolic movement in general) designed to mess up my life in so many important ways just because someone of greater importance than me wanted kinky sex? Why was any of that even any of my business?

The answer is: Because that's the way we're designed to interact. We have such a preoccupation with the bedrooms of others that a few have a preoccupation with making their bedrooms important throughout the movement. This part still grosses me out.

i am sorry that this is happening in the church today, it has been happening for years, no one would come out and fix it, i remember some people having sex in the music room and they were not even married, the man was but the woman wasnt, i do not understand that they could get on the platform and sing for the church, it makes me want to puk, and it was the womans sister . but i have to say that whatever happens in a church we really should move on because we will be lost if we do not get back to where we were, find a different church, but stay in the truth, and remember we are all human that have come short of the glory of God, by his grace that is not us doing that, we can fall in to temptation too,
but we are in the end times and it is going to get worse, so be ready cause here it comes. it is reality, but when it happens in a church and not a jobsite it can be different because it is church, how are we suppose to witness when this is going on in a church, makes me sick, there has to be alot of praying and fasting, thats the key,

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

What did you see going on?

If you're going to dismiss tongues as being the initial evidence of the initial infilling of the Holy Ghost, you would do better to be convinced of it because of what is written in the word of God and not because of what you see in church.

Wow! Exactly.

[jaxfam6]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

BTW... Being EX-Pentecostal need not mean becoming EX-Christian, IMHO.

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Yes we know. But for some, becoming ex-Pentecostal has been a rest stop on the road toward becoming ex-Christian.

But are you equating Pentecostal as UPC? There are many Pentecostals only one group calls themselves UPC. I guess I am of the thought that it is the Pentecostal experience that is being talked about here. The ACTS 2 message.

I personally do not adhere to the same 'standard of dress' that I was taught was the only way to dress but I still believe very strongly in the Pentecostal experience and the Apostolic message. I don't think becoming ex-Pentecostal has anything to do with not dressing the UPC dress code.

[StillStanding]

One day I sat down and thought about how I was raised in the Apostolic doctrine.

I wondered, If I was by myself on an island with nothing but a bible and with no preconceived ideas about God that had been taught to me, would I believe the same things that I believe today? If my father had been a Baptist or Methodist preacher, wouldn't my beliefs be different?

I began studying in a new light, and I came to the conclusion that not everything that was taught to me is necessarily biblically correct.

I have been indoctrinated too extremely to comprehend God other than Oneness. I've witnessed too many baptisms in Jesus name to feel comfortable with baptisms any other way! I've experienced the Holy Ghost baptism and seen God heal and change lives to believe any other way.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by Pianoman

One day I sat down and thought about how I was raised in the Apostolic doctrine.

I wondered, If I was by myself on an island with nothing but a bible and with no preconceived ideas about God that had been taught to me, would I believe the same things that I believe today? If my father had been a Baptist or Methodist preacher, wouldn't my beliefs be different?

I began studying in a new light, and I came to the conclusion that not everything that was taught to me is necessarily biblically correct.

I have been indoctrinated too extremely to comprehend God other than Oneness. I've witnessed too many baptisms in Jesus name to feel comfortable with baptisms any other way! I've experienced the Holy Ghost baptism and seen God heal and change lives to believe any other way.