This is something I posted before but it seems relevant to the current discussion:
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This is from a booklet called "The Charismatic Movement, Renewal or Confusion?" which I received from Pastor James Lee Beall quite a while ago (in the 1960's or maybe in the early 1970's). He was pastor of Bethesda Missionary Temple in Detroit, MI. This church was considered "Latter Rain," "Oneness Pentecostal," or "Apostolic Pentecostal" depending on your viewpoint. In this portion he describes his attitude toward "Charismatics," and tells of being invited to participate in one of their meetings.
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Religious Superiority
It is relatively simple to sit back and criticize every and all religious groups. If you want something to offend you, it will be easily found.
When the Lord God first began to pour the Holy Spirit upon segments of the organized church --the Catholics, the Baptists, the Episcopalians, etc., I sat back to criticize. Believe me, I found plenty that I did not consider right or proper.
How superior I felt as I sat in my detached ivory tower pointing out the wrongs committed by others! There is no feeling quite like that which comes with religious superiority. It is like the eye saying to the hand, "I have no need of you."
...It is my personal opinion that the charismatic renewal has brought segments of the religious world to needed areas of maturity. For the first time in years and years, men and women of different persuasions are able to sit down and talk without cutting one another to pieces. We have ceased being afraid of one another.
My First Charismatic Conference.
Some years back I was invited to one of the major U.S. cities to take part in a city-wide charismatic conference. This was the first for me and I wasn't sure that I wanted to go.
I gave the matter some thought and prayer. Inwardly I knew it was the right step for me. I accepted the invitations and left for the meetings.
What I saw in the initial services made me a little uneasy. Hundreds of people were in attendance with clergymen of all backgrounds.
During the course of this dinner-meeting,the religious community was invited to stand and identify themselves. To my surprise, the Roman Catholics --priests and nuns-- were in the majority.
I could not believe they were really interested in knowing about the baptism in the Holy Spirit and what God was doing spiritually all over the world. I had come to believe that Roman Catholics and Episcopalians were such dyed-in-the-wool sacramentalists that personal spiritual experiences were of little or no interest to them. In that meeting, I began to get the sneaky hunch that I might have been wrong.
The day after the initial dinner-meeting we conducted our services in one of the local church buildings. My responsibility was to speak morning and evening.
Following my teaching on the baptism in the Holy Spirit that evening I invited those who were interested to stand and express their interest in this way. About half of that audience responded.
The church sanctuary was completely filled so I asked those seated in the right front section to move toward the rear if they were not interested in further instruction and prayer for the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Finally, we got everyone settled again.
There in the first rows were Roman Catholic priests and nuns, along with other ministers and workers from various churches. I didn't know exactly what I ought to do.
The reason for my quandry was that I knew the Lord had no intention of filling these people with the Holy Spirit. They belonged to the wrong churches and I was not even sure of their salvation. There was no other step to be taken except that of instruction. This I did with the intention of eventually leading them to prayer.
In my prayer I led these seekers to repeat after me. My prayer would be a request for the forgiveness of sins and the confession that we were fully aware that there was one mediator between God and man, the Lord Jesus Christ. I was going to make Protestants out of all these Catholics if I possibly could. After all, this was the only way they could receive something from the Lord.
Mixed Reactions
While I was praying with my eyes closed, my prayer was interrupted. Someone was singing and praising God in another language. In a few minutes, others joined in.
When I opened my eyes to see who it was who was being filled with the Holy Spirit, i was amazed to find the majority of them were obviously Roman Catholics. My reactions were mixed. I was happy for them, while at the same time puzzled. How could this happen? What did it all mean?
The next day the entire scene broke in on me again. All I could say was, "God did it!" I did not lay my hands on them. No one gave them words to say nor did we initiate anything.
God evidently did not care if they were protestants or Catholics and He did not keep the Spirit from them because they wore clerical clothes. The Lord God looked down into the hearts and saw the hunger there. Not a hunger for things, or experiences, or gifts --just a deep and singular hunger and thirst for Him. He mets the hungry and satisfies their mouth with good things. Make no mistake about this.
This is amazing, I can understand his feelings of hesitancy-which many of us OP's would also feel.
But some how he got a bigger picture of what God was doing-and in doing so opened a door of ministry to these folks-I would be interested in reading his book as well.
LOL... You need to read more of my posts then... close to or over 100 already baptized and filled with the holy ghost this year alone in our church over 160 last yr. More miracles than can count... More things happening than you could ever imagine... Daughter works that are growing by leaps and bounds (Indian, Korean, African, Spanish and others here within the US) Sending out many evangelists out of our church weekly and they are seeing these same things where they are going..Not to mention in the middle of a building project that we will more than likely outgrow before we are even able to complete the new building. We are definitely seeing holiness... doctrine,,,, signs and wonders here! Come for a visit sometime... you will be pleasantly surprised!
This is an awesome report, AG, but you have to be able to say it can also happen somewhere else, outside of normal OP ranks. I rejoice with you, but I also rejoice that it's happening in Lakeland among the people there. If you watch the services on line, you will see a deep passion for God and a definite move of His Spirit. Do they understand everything doctrinally that we do? Probably not, but they do have a definite walk with the Lord and He is blessing their faith by performing miracle after miracle. Todd Bentley is not Benny Hinn - in fact, Benny would not agree with him and the way that he looks at all. But until we see the kind of results that they are seeing, I would be fearful to criticize it.
This is an awesome report, AG, but you have to be able to say it can also happen somewhere else, outside of normal OP ranks. I rejoice with you, but I also rejoice that it's happening in Lakeland among the people there. If you watch the services on line, you will see a deep passion for God and a definite move of His Spirit. Do they understand everything doctrinally that we do? Probably not, but they do have a definite walk with the Lord and He is blessing their faith by performing miracle after miracle. Todd Bentley is not Benny Hinn - in fact, Benny would not agree with him and the way that he looks at all. But until we see the kind of results that they are seeing, I would be fearful to criticize it.
This is amazing, I can understand his feelings of hesitancy-which many of us OP's would also feel.
But some how he got a bigger picture of what God was doing-and in doing so opened a door of ministry to these folks-I would be interested in reading his book as well.
It was just a small pamphlet containing a couple of his sermons.
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Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
This is an awesome report, AG, but you have to be able to say it can also happen somewhere else, outside of normal OP ranks. I rejoice with you, but I also rejoice that it's happening in Lakeland among the people there. If you watch the services on line, you will see a deep passion for God and a definite move of His Spirit. Do they understand everything doctrinally that we do? Probably not, but they do have a definite walk with the Lord and He is blessing their faith by performing miracle after miracle. Todd Bentley is not Benny Hinn - in fact, Benny would not agree with him and the way that he looks at all. But until we see the kind of results that they are seeing, I would be fearful to criticize it.
On Wednesday mornings I go to the nearby city of Hamilton, Ohio and attend a prayer meeting in the parlor of an historic Presbyterian Church. It is only about a 10 mile drive. A group of people (mostly ladies) start around 10 a.m. break for lunch between noon and 1 p.m. and then pray till around 2:30. I usually get there around 10:30 and leave after lunch. There are usually about 20-25 people there. This prayer meeting has been going on for about 40 years. The lady who leads it has led it for about 30 years. About 4 of the people who come are from that church. Others are from various church backgrounds, mostly Pentecostal and Charismatic. These ladies have seen miracles happen, people healed, etc. They often pray in the Spirit (in tongues) and some times interpret. They also prophecy. These folks are what we would call "prayer warriors" or "intercessors."
Today and last week we spent about 45 minutes watching the Lakeland meeting. These ladies are thrilled about what is going on down there and are praying for more of that in our area and in our local churches.
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Sam also known as Jim Ellis
Apostolic in doctrine
Pentecostal in experience
Charismatic in practice
Non-denominational in affiliation
Inter-denominational in fellowship
It's the classic......There is a God and you are not Him!
I would be thrilled to see these results in Apostolic churches and do know that some are seeing great things happen.
But we cannot dismiss the fact that God is God and as has been stated , He looks at the heart and honors faith.
My thoughts are that in a perfect world all of the healings and miracles would be in our own little circle.
But God sees faith and responds. Praise the Lord.
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"Le sens commun n'est pas si commun."
(Common sense is not so common.)
Voltaire
Common sense is genius dressed in working clothes.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Common sense and a sense of humor are the same thing, moving at different speeds. A sense of humor is just common sense, dancing.
William James
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