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07-27-2014, 12:33 PM
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Administrator
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Christian Life Center Stockton Question
If anybody reading this attends or has close ties to Christian Life Center Stockton, I have some questions.
I was watching CLC's webcast this morning and noticed from the limited view of the medium shot camera that the auditorium had a lot of empty seats.
I know that they built a huge auditorium seating around 5,000 a few years ago so you could have a lot of people in it and it still be half empty. Here are my questions;
1. Does anybody have actual knowledge (not guessing) of what Sunday attendance is at CLC?
2. Is the size of the Sunday morning service affected by a lot of people being outside of the sanctuary in Sunday School, etc?
3. Is the Sunday night congregation size bigger than the Sunday morning one in the Sanctuary? Any idea how many in attendance on a typical Sunday night?
4. Has CLC experienced growth, maintained the same size, or shrunk in the last 5 years? The last 10 years?
5. Are there other UPC and exUPC churches in the area? If so have they affected CLC attendance?
EDIT: I just did a search of AFF and found a posting from Sweet Pea I think from 2009 saying that Lifesong Church in Stockton was originally a spin off / daughter work of CLC and went "charismatic" in the early 2000's. Additionally I believe Mark Segraves, former CLC instructor and son of Daniel Segraves, is the Asst. Pastor there. Has Lifesong affected the size of CLC?
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
Last edited by CC1; 07-27-2014 at 01:05 PM.
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07-27-2014, 12:40 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,848
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Re: Christian Life Center Stockton Question
As a follow up to explain my inquiry above I was raised UPC and spent about the first half of my life in the UPC. For that reason I have an ingrained interest in the organization.
That interest includes it's beliefs, culture, success / failure, trends, and individual churches and prominent personalities I know or know of.
I didn't want to overwhelm with questions about a lot of different UPC churches at once but one of the things I am curious about is growth among the churches traditionally considered the largest in the UPC vs. other UPC churches that may be outperforming them now in growth.
I consider the churches traditionally thought of a the UPC's largest and most successful as;
1. Christian Life Center - Stockton CA
2. The Pentecostals of Alexandria
3. Life Tabernacle - Houston, TX
4. Whatever C.L. Dee's church in Houston is called now and whoever the pastor now is
5. Calvary Tabernacle - Indianapolis
6. FPC - Jackson, MS (not in the last 10 or 15 years but in 70's - 80's ran over 1,000)
What is the current attendance of these churches?
Does that number reflect growth in the last five to ten years, stagnant attendance, or shrinkage?
What churches not listed now are as large as these in the UPC?
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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07-27-2014, 01:33 PM
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Isaiah 56:4-5
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SOUTH ZION
Posts: 11,307
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Re: Christian Life Center Stockton Question
Life Tabernacle is no longer UPC and is now known as Life Church.
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07-27-2014, 01:45 PM
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Administrator
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Posts: 16,848
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Re: Christian Life Center Stockton Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by houston
Life Tabernacle is no longer UPC and is now known as Life Church.
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Yup. I knew that and forgot to mention it. I am still interested in it's history the last 10 years or so as far as growth, shrinkage, etc.
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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07-27-2014, 03:39 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 23,543
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Re: Christian Life Center Stockton Question
Lifesong, is a church that is receiving folks from CLC steadily that do not want ANY standards preached at them. We have friends and family there. They trash talk CLC members whenever they get a chance. They win disgruntled pentecostals this way. They are as brutal, or even more brutal than their conservative brethren. They dont insist on Jesus name baptism, several have told me. I refuse to attend there....I dont want my hottie wife in pants! I wont even say any more about the junk that spews out of there.
We dont attend anywhere for now, but lifesong is the LAST place I would go around here.
Last edited by Sean; 07-27-2014 at 04:17 PM.
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07-27-2014, 05:05 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Christian Life Center Stockton Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
If anybody reading this attends or has close ties to Christian Life Center Stockton, I have some questions.
I was watching CLC's webcast this morning and noticed from the limited view of the medium shot camera that the auditorium had a lot of empty seats.
I know that they built a huge auditorium seating around 5,000 a few years ago so you could have a lot of people in it and it still be half empty. Here are my questions;
1. Does anybody have actual knowledge (not guessing) of what Sunday attendance is at CLC?
2. Is the size of the Sunday morning service affected by a lot of people being outside of the sanctuary in Sunday School, etc?
3. Is the Sunday night congregation size bigger than the Sunday morning one in the Sanctuary? Any idea how many in attendance on a typical Sunday night?
4. Has CLC experienced growth, maintained the same size, or shrunk in the last 5 years? The last 10 years?
5. Are there other UPC and exUPC churches in the area? If so have they affected CLC attendance?
EDIT: I just did a search of AFF and found a posting from Sweet Pea I think from 2009 saying that Lifesong Church in Stockton was originally a spin off / daughter work of CLC and went "charismatic" in the early 2000's. Additionally I believe Mark Segraves, former CLC instructor and son of Daniel Segraves, is the Asst. Pastor there. Has Lifesong affected the size of CLC?
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Maybe it depends on when. Perhaps those seats are empty because they are wear the choir sits?
In any case, there was a discussion I believe here about dwindling attendance since daddy left and son took over
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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07-27-2014, 05:11 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Christian Life Center Stockton Question
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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07-27-2014, 05:17 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,848
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Re: Christian Life Center Stockton Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas
Maybe it depends on when. Perhaps those seats are empty because they are wear the choir sits?
In any case, there was a discussion I believe here about dwindling attendance since daddy left and son took over
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Then they must have a choir of several thousand people! 
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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07-27-2014, 05:18 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Christian Life Center Stockton Question
I was watching a video. It seems that mostly the balcony is empty. Elder Haney didn't seem to have a problem with church growth and keeping saints.
One thing I never cared for was that "Im a Pentecostal and your not" song (no those were not the exact words, just the sentiments)
I also don't like how this church is built, particularly the platform. It's so high with no steps. The preacher can't get down to the floor unless he walks way back and around
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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07-27-2014, 05:19 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: Christian Life Center Stockton Question
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
Then they must have a choir of several thousand people! |
They sang that song "We're a thousand Pentecostals and we are not ashamed"...
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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