The law, the courts, and the church

[RandyWayne]

Is it EVER ok to seek justice or enforcement of the law through a secular court?
(You can select/vote for more than one option.)

[Sam]

Some times there is no other recourse but to the secular justice system.

I've heard of a known child molester in a position in a church. He sexually molested a couple of little girls. When their parents went to the pastor he told them not to say anything. In this case he was reported to the police, arrested, tried, and convicted. I think that was the right thing to do.

We've also heard of a pastor using the church funds for his own use and claiming he could not be questioned. The organization backed him and said folks needed to forgive him. In this case the members took that to court. I think this was the right thing to do. That pastor should answer to the laws of the land, be sentenced, forced to make restitution, and have that on his record.

Some times a congregation splits and a secular court has to decide which group gets the property and how much the others should be reimbursed for their time and money invested.

Some times an injunction is needed to keep trouble makers away.

Plan A according to Matthew 18 and 1 Corinthians 6 may not always apply or may not always work. Then we have to go to plan B which would be the civil legal system.

[RandyWayne]

I have also heard of pastors abusing church funds then demanding forgiveness (with the blessing of the district). It takes the phrase "it is easier to ask for forgiveness then permission" to a whole new level.

The show 20/20 did a segment on an Amish community nearby where a young girl had been raped and molested her whole life from her earliest years to an older teen. The culprits where known and caught many times. The community "kept it in the kingdom" and continuesly dished out their own punishment of not allowing them to attend meeting for two weeks for every offense -hardly a punishment for a teenage boy who doesn't want to go to church in the first place.
Eventually SHE brought it to court where the three main boys were handed out light sentences bordering on symbolic. The court was filled with Amish residents and most of the women were wailing up a storm when the (very light) sentences were handed down to the boys. The judge took a minute to publicaly chastise the group for crying over the plight of these boys but not shedding a single tear for this girl.

[RevDWW]

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=193325&postcount=13

I would say if it's a criminal matter that injuries a person, in most cases you should take it to the law to avoid future problems. If it's a civil matter, it would be best handled brother to brother.

[Trouvere]

There are certain things that you report or go to jail yourself.

[RandyWayne]

Biblically there seems to be a clear distinction between financial-type disputes, perceived or otherwise, and actual criminal-court type proceedings.
You know, the kind that the People Court or Judge Judy would handle. In fact, I remember seeing Judge Mills Lane (the fiesty bald guy) totally ream out people for even being there when they happened to be father and son or brother and brother, or any combination of family member suing another family member.

[Pragmatist]

I think criminal activity needs to be reported. The Bible is speaking of frivolous lawsuits or things that could be straightened out if both parties are acting like Christians. Felonies should be reported and not swept under the rug for ANY reason.

[OP_Carl]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Is it EVER ok to seek justice or enforcement of the law through a secular court?

EVER??? Yes.

But . .

(You can select/vote for more than one option.)

You didn't have any options that I would have voted for.

To what degree can/should the legal system be involved in the church?
Never! No exceptions.

There are always exceptions. Most of the ones I was thinking of have already been posted.

If another boy is selling crack to my son and no one else will do anything.....

Your son is buying drugs? That's where the problem is in my view.

Another "member" is threatening me with bodily harm

Threaten away. Then we'll go out into the parking lot and I'll kick your Balaam's limosine all the way up between your shoulder blades. I'll even offer seconds. I'm just that kind of a nice guy . . .

I just bought this lemon from so and so.....

This is the one I believe is behind the scripture against.

The pastor is spreading untruths in the local press

Again, you've got scripture against taking it to the law. Spread your truth in like fashion? Forgive?

Another member molested my kid!

If caught in the act or with proof, said member would not require the services of the barristers or constabulary, but the undertaker. I would proudly be fitted with a prison jumpsuit for this. Okay, maybe my Holy Ghost would be stronger than my flesh . . .

I can sue for any old thing!

The throw-away gag. Obviously not.