The Slippery Emergent Slope - Page 13

crakjak · #**121** 03-04-2011, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Tell me sir...

Just how deep is THAT love? Just how wide and expansive is that mercy? Just how limited is that Grace? Is it limited at all? Will it extend to the devil and all of the angels which formerly inhabited heaven?

Would you mind if God's grace and purpose was as deep and as wide as you question??? Would it hurt your feelings if God had a purpose to redeem everything?

crakjak · #**122** 03-04-2011, 09:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegsm76

I see it now and can't wait to rejoice with Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao, and Obama in heaven...

How about you Aegsm, would you be crushed if God has a way that these men are redeemed?

Apprehended · #**123** 03-04-2011, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Tell me sir...

Just how deep is THAT love? Just how wide and expansive is that mercy? Just how limited is that Grace? Is it limited at all? Will it extend to the devil and all of the angels which formerly inhabited heaven?

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak

Would you mind if God's grace and purpose was as deep and as wide as you question??? Would it hurt your feelings if God had a purpose to redeem everything?

But...but...who's going to be around to baptized Lucifer, the Satan, the old Serpent, and all those demons in the Name of Jesus after they've repented? Who's going to be around to help pray 'em through to the Holy Ghost?

crakjak · #**124** 03-04-2011, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegsm76

For those of you who really believe this, why are you even debating about it?
After all, we will all wind up in the same place.
So why worry about doctine?

Trying to share the Good News, that as many as possible can enter in, as soon as possible.

It is not so much the finality as it is the journey, what does one have to endure or experience on the way?

God has already determined man's final end, every last one will finally bow and confess, that He is Lord, and that confession will be "...to the glory of God the Father...." so that is a great finality that only God could bring about.

But some, will experience destruction of all that they have worked for in this physical life, everything they are, do and attain will be burned up, because they live to themselves and not unto the Lord. "All their works will be burned up, however they will be saved, though by fire."

So, don't view UR as a get out of jail free, all have challenges and difficulty to deal with, some just learn early on to "give it all to Jesus". This life is to learn something, and we all will eventually do just that.

crakjak · #**125** 03-04-2011, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apprehended

Whoopie.....

All our brothers and sisters in Christ.....

So, you would be offended, sorta like the elder brother???

crakjak · #**126** 03-04-2011, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

That doesn't make sense. As if Appy or others (like me who denounce Universalism as an errant doctrine) don't see Jesus as Savior. If anything, our emphasis on His saving role -- and the urgency of His saving role are all the more.

Really? Or do you like most of the traditional church see 90% plus of mankind in endless torment or annihilated?

crakjak · #**127** 03-04-2011, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

Aside from the scriptural gymnastics Universalists must do to overlook an abundance of scripture that refers to a final -- and even eternal judgement (spoken often by Jesus himself), here are some other things:

Until the 19th Century, almost all Christian theologians had some understanding and even taught the reality of eternal death. There were some outside of the theological mainstream who believed in conditional immortality (annihilationism), and even fewer who advocated universal salvation. Eternal punishment/death is articulated fully in the creeds and confessions of the Church, a teaching seemingly indispensable. Things changed in the 1800's.

Really great scholarly essay here by Bauckham: http://s3.amazonaws.com/tgc-document...2_Bauckham.pdf

There is much evidence that UR was the most common view until after the fifth century. The Dark Ages brought about an abuse of those with the UR view, so that the "church" and the Roman sword could manipulate and control the masses thru much fear.

crakjak · #**128** 03-04-2011, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Socialite

I hate to sound like a UC, but a relevant verse would be Jesus' "Narrow is the way that leads to righteousness." This means there's a broad and attractive way that leads to death. Theological death is separation from God, which as far as I'm concerned, would justify Jesus' frequent analogies to fires, worms not dying, unquenched fires, etc...

That verse is no issue for UR, the disagree is to extrapolate the result of the broad way leading to endless torment or annihilation.

Apprehended · #**129** 03-04-2011, 10:13 PM

Crackjak...

See my post no. 123.

...and would it be possible to answer with a little more substance than just mere rhetoric.

Thank you

crakjak · #**130** 03-04-2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apprehended

But...but...who's going to be around to baptized Lucifer, the Satan, the old Serpent, and all those demons in the Name of Jesus after they've repented? Who's going to be around to help pray 'em through to the Holy Ghost?

You, would no doubt argue that God has different requirements for different ages or dispensations.

The elder brother was greatly displeased that the Father accepted the prodigal, because the prodigal didn't do it like the elder. And the employees that were hired early in the day were very displeased that the ones hired in the eleventh hour received the same compensation as they.

With God, ALL things are possible. Since it is possible for HIM to redeem ALL, do you really think HE is going to burn up or torture live beings??? That my friend is a sad view of an all powerful Creator!!