We have to Be perfect in order to make heaven - Page 17

NotforSale · #**161** 04-15-2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila

Notice, they say that Jesus is their rest. Hence, they acknowledge the principle of grace when confronted with laws... they don't obey. ;-)

Excellent point!!!

Aquila · #**162** 04-15-2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfblume

Amen. I find it interesting to see the betraying factors that reveal a legalist. For example, the view of how the old testament saints are saved. Did the cross need to occur for them to be saved or not? If the cross is the centre of the spiritual universe as I claim it is, then YES the Old Testament saints would never enjoy glory had not the cross later occurred. So this is a litmus test to present to a person to determine legalism.

The Law was legalism. I am not talking about a distortion of the law as the Pharisees looked at it. I mean the law that God gave to Moses. Paul spoke of the LAW given to Moses that placed one beneath a curse, bar nobody. Gal 3 shows this. And Hebrews taught that the cross actually made redemption for transgressions that were committed under the law by the saints of old who existed under law. THAT MEANS that without the cross, those saints would have never been able to enter glory.

This issue is a litmus tests because it reveals whether or not one views SELF EFFORT as a means to glory aside from the cross, for that is all that Law was before the cross.

As Tom Fudge said in his book, "the fellowship's" articles of faith are void of a single reference to the cross, and that concerns me. No wonder folks do not understand the concept of atonement and co-death with Christ on the cross, and the need for the cross to occur so the old testament saints could enter glory.

More frightening still... biblical Christianity views Christ's once and for all atonement for the believer's sin a foundational truth. If a church, movement, or denomination doesn't reference the cross at all... it's not even Christian.

Aquila · #**163** 04-15-2011, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Jesus himself cuts off the disobedient.

So by choosing to continually do evil... a person hasn't demonstrated that they are not one with Christ?

Aquila · #**164** 04-15-2011, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Well I dont stress that to people who already know it. Thats the basis of this walk. You could say myself and others are "the balance". Todays teaching degrades and negates large portions of truth so we are compelled to step up and remind the interested that there are also other teachings given by the chief Apostle even Yeshua the Messiah.

Well that would make for a Bible that would be one sentence long then!

If you will stop and consider for a minute. Every page of the New Testament contains instructions on things to do or not to do. If they were not necessary Yeshua would not have bothered to teach them.

Not every page of the NT. Remember... the teachings of the Gospels took place under the Law, prior to the cross. Much of what Jesus taught is only relevant in an OT context because He was addressing issues and questions related to the Law. The New Covenant wasn't even secured until Christ was glorified upon the cross. This is why the writings of Paul are absolutely essential to clarify the NT teaching of grace.

Michael The Disciple · #**165** 04-15-2011, 03:55 PM

Corvete,

Your initial reaction to reading the words of scripture were eye opening. Many as here on this forum will try to water it down or attack it in various ways. I pray you will be led by the Spirit and the words of Yeshua. Men like to be like Burger King and have it their own way.

NotforSale · #**166** 04-15-2011, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Corvete,

Your initial reaction to reading the words of scripture were eye opening. Many as here on this forum will try to water it down or attack it in various ways. I pray you will be led by the Spirit and the words of Yeshua. Men like to be like Burger King and have it their own way.

Yeah, Corvete, Mikey Likes It his way, just like everyone else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlFCsyHNoxg&feature=fvst

corvet786c · #**167** 04-16-2011, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Corvete,

Your initial reaction to reading the words of scripture were eye opening. Many as here on this forum will try to water it down or attack it in various ways. I pray you will be led by the Spirit and the words of Yeshua. Men like to be like Burger King and have it their own way.

I just sometimes get scared because if Jesus is saying that to the churches back then, how much more is he saying it today to us. The apostolic church as a whole.

So should I not get scared when I sin because of grace and forgiveness. What about people apostolics who have certain addictions still??

Pendragon · #**168** 04-16-2011, 09:04 AM

Corvet,

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=151

corvet786c · #**169** 04-16-2011, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pendragon

Corvet,

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...&postcount=151

I ve already read that, so you are saying its not by our works then right just all his grace even when we fall like you mentioned.

mfblume · #**170** 04-16-2011, 09:15 AM

We need to be careful to maintain good works, but the actual ticket to glory IS NOT, NOR EVER CAN BE, OUR GOOD WORKS. It is the blood and the work of the cross. When we sin and do not get right with God and intend to continue sinning, we lose out. But "not sinning" is not our ticket to glory. The blood is.