Hmmm... I notice no responses about this LITMUS TEST:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
Amen. I find it interesting to see the betraying factors that reveal a legalist. For example, the view of how the old testament saints are saved. Did the cross need to occur for them to be saved or not? If the cross is the centre of the spiritual universe as I claim it is, then YES the Old Testament saints would never enjoy glory had not the cross later occurred. So this is a litmus test to present to a person to determine legalism.
And also this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume
I think I know part of the reason people reject true and genuine grace without works. They do not believe Jesus actually died AS US, which is what FOR US actually means. God considers US DEAD when Christ died. Just as though we were on that cross ourselves. It would be interesting to see if co-death with Christ is just a pretend story to encourage us in the minds of those who promote works as much as they do, or if they really believe GOD SAW US ON THE CROSS DYING.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
When we sin and do not get right with God and intend to continue sinning, we lose out. But "not sinning" is not our ticket to glory. The blood is.
Are you talking about a sin here or a sin there. Whats the diffrence if I sin once or a million times. The blood still covers. I guess what I am trying to say is that these days it is much easier to sin compared to like 100 yrs ago. With technology etc etc.
When we sin and do not get right with God and intend to continue sinning, we lose out. But "not sinning" is not our ticket to glory. The blood is.
Are you talking about a sin here or a sin there. Whats the diffrence if I sin once or a million times. The blood still covers. I guess what I am trying to say is that these days it is much easier to sin compared to like 100 yrs ago. With technology etc etc.
Sinning happens here and there, and God knows if we intended to sin and not care what He thought, or if it was a mistake due to weak resistance against sin. If we hate the sin and still commit it, then God knows we did not intend to do it despite His truth or not. God forgives weakness and low resistance to sin when we seek it.
But church attendance and constant word and preaching to us from anointed preachers is ABSOLUTELY VITAL to see us get victory.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Sinning happens here and there, and God knows if we intended to sin and not care what He thought, or if it was a mistake due to weak resistance against sin. If we hate the sin and still commit it, then God knows we did not intend to do it despite His truth or not. God forgives weakness and low resistance to sin when we seek it.
But church attendance and constant word and preaching to us from anointed preachers is ABSOLUTELY VITAL to see us get victory.
OK Thank You thats what I was wondering, you explained it very well. There is only 1 apostolic church and we used to go to it but dont agree with some of the teachings there. Just pray for me God lead me to a church.
Corvet, another way to describe what I am saying in that post is 'you can't get good [enough] to get God'. If a Christian is struggling repeatedly with a sin, it is likely because their relationship with God is not fundamentally right. Once they get that relationship right and continue to maintain it, those habits will fall by the wayside.
I do not believe Holy Ghost filled Christians struggle with addictions. They struggle with habits and with the weakness of their flesh. An addiction is something you can't control. God will break the shackles that we cannot break ourselves. This is why many UPC members leave the church. They are told they aren't 'Doing it right' because they don't fast enough or get up early enough for prayer or whatever. They are taught if they do these things God will deliver them, but they struggle and struggle and eventually give up in despair because they can't stand the condemnation and embarrassment and head-shaking at the altar every Sunday night. Or maybe they just think God can't deliver them from their 'addiction'.
Breaking old habits and fixing weaknesses in our character is part of our walk with God. It is the daily walk that draws us closer to Him and farther away from our fleshly weaknesses. But you will never be entirely free from the weakness of your flesh as long as you live.
Walking with God involves both a physical walk (the works) and the empowering grace of God. You aren't walking with God if His grace is not helping you on a day to day basis overcome your flesh. You can't have a walk with God if you don't have both works and grace.
But the singular problem with legalism is that it believes Grace FOLLOWS Works. You need both, but you must have an understanding of grace first. I don't know how else to explain other than that. It's almost like the Holy Spirit is gently trying to nudge you out of the driver's seat and saying, 'Hey, just give me a chance here', but too many times we ignore the Spirit and try to manhandle our life down the straight and narrow. You can't even SEE the straight and narrow if He isn't driving. Jesus shouldn't be your co-pilot, He should be the driver.
It is very difficult to truly put this into words. You won't really understand what I, or Paul, is saying until you get a revelation in your spirit. That's what happened to me. I didn't understand this even though I've been in the UPC for many years (in a legalistic church for most of that time).
I just sometimes get scared because if Jesus is saying that to the churches back then, how much more is he saying it today to us. The apostolic church as a whole.
So should I not get scared when I sin because of grace and forgiveness. What about people apostolics who have certain addictions still??
If in a time of weakness loving Jesus is not enough to keep you from sinning then consider the consequences. Many scriptures in the New Testament present the fear of God. Anyone should fear God if they sin.
To ignore that is to ignore much truth. Jesus said as many as I love I rebuke and chasten. He said as a Father chastises his son so the Lord chastens you. Not to say one would immediately lose their salvation. But Jesus will do all he can do in the way of chastening to make us understand his attitude about sin.
Remember it is HE who said its better to pluck out your eye than sin with it. It was HE who said if your hand causes you to sin cut it off. You cannot trust teaching that ignores the fear of God anymore than the teaching that ignores his love.
Sinning happens here and there, and God knows if we intended to sin and not care what He thought, or if it was a mistake due to weak resistance against sin. If we hate the sin and still commit it, then God knows we did not intend to do it despite His truth or not. God forgives weakness and low resistance to sin when we seek it.
But He won't forgive intentional sin?
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
The heresy hunters are still with us. Only now, instead of stakes, they use their books and radio programs to destroy those they consider heretics.... I'm concerned that heresy hunting may be turning into leukemia because some cultwatchers seem more intent on destroying parts of the body than healing the body....
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