I agree, many new Pentecostal converts may seem confused when they try to conform to the "Standards" without truly being changed from the inside. Like I said, we are in the pursuit of Holiness. It is not something learned, or earned. It little things that God changes in you as you die daily.
AMEN.
I'd like to mention something. Our righteousness is only found in Christ. Therefore pursuing holiness isn't about keeping standards in any way shape or form. It's about pursuing Christ Jesus, allowing Him to live in and through us.
I'd like to mention something. Our righteousness is only found in Christ. Therefore pursuing holiness isn't about keeping standards in any way shape or form. It's about pursuing Christ Jesus, allowing Him to live in and through us.
The standards of men have nothing to do with the commandments of Yeshua. If one is pursuing fellowship with him they will want his commandments. They will want him to be Lord of their life.
Why do people automatically think "standards" as in some false Apostolic way? Do the people who teach Jesus did it all and theres nothing you must do but believe that, make a difference between man made false standards and the actual teachings/instructions/commandments of Yeshua the Messiah?
There are things we must hear and do. We can know Jesus is Lord, as Peter knew Jesus was the Son of the living God, but not want to hear nor do what Jesus says. Peter was rebuked as satan just as people will know Jesus is Lord and yet the Lord never knew them. This is where taking up our crosses and denying ourselves and following Him comes into the picture.
Jesus does not "know" those who do not carry their crosses. He knows His sheep, and they hear his voice and follow Him. IOW, they hear and do the sayings of Jesus.
The point in all of this, though, is that SHEEP WILL DO what He says. But BECOMING SHEEP is something we cannot do on our own. Yes, we can become a sheep and revert back to a goat, but the miracle of being made a sheep is not something that comes about because of our good works any more than our good works save us. The people whom Jesus knows who HEAR Him and DO what He says are first made sheep by salvation. They are made righteous in Christ. And the faith that saved them and moved God to make them sheep WILL WORK, but those works do not save.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
There are things we must hear and do. We can know Jesus is Lord, as Peter knew Jesus was the Son of the living God, but not want to hear nor do what Jesus says. Peter was rebuked as satan just as people will know Jesus is Lord and yet the Lord never knew them. This is where taking up our crosses and denying ourselves and following Him comes into the picture.
Jesus does not "know" those who do not carry their crosses. He knows His sheep, and they hear his voice and follow Him. IOW, they hear and do the sayings of Jesus.
The point in all of this, though, is that SHEEP WILL DO what He says. But BECOMING SHEEP is something we cannot do on our own. Yes, we can become a sheep and revert back to a goat, but the miracle of being made a sheep is not something that comes about because of our good works any more than our good works save us. The people whom Jesus knows who HEAR Him and DO what He says are first made sheep by salvation. They are made righteous in Christ. And the faith that saved them and moved God to make them sheep WILL WORK, but those works do not save.
So, you have to do works (do what Jesus said to do), but doing them doesn't save you. But not doing them can unsave you.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
So, you have to do works (do what Jesus said to do), but doing them doesn't save you. But not doing them can unsave you.
Right! It is because what saves us causes us to truly desire to serve Him and gives us the ability to do so. Nothing can be done for God without his empowerment. But we are not without personal self will to the extent that we cannot later choose to no longer serve Him.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Right! It is because what saves us causes us to truly desire to serve Him and gives us the ability to do so. Nothing can be done for God without his empowerment. But we are not without personal self will to the extent that we cannot later choose to no longer serve Him.
I see. Coincidentally (or is it? ), I was about to post on this thread a question about this very thing. I was going to ask if Jesus taught salvation by works, and post a bunch of scriptures. Maybe I still will.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
I see. Coincidentally (or is it? ), I was about to post on this thread a question about this very thing. I was going to ask if Jesus taught salvation by works, and post a bunch of scriptures. Maybe I still will.
That book's very first page of chapter 1 already shows a flaw of understanding. It says Jesus told the rich young ruler to DO things that he might LIVE. The book stops there and says Jesus preached something quite different from Paul when Paul said to believe.
The TRUTH, THOUGH, IS THAT when Jesus asked the rich young ruler to DO things to LIVE, He was trying to show the man that he cannot DO anything to save himself. That is why Jesus wound up telling him to do something He knew the man could not do on his own. Sell all and give to the poor. It so shocked the others, for they all knew there was SOMETHING THEY could LIKEWISE not do in themselves, that we read, "Matthew 19:25 KJV When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?"
Look at His response!
Matthew 19:26 KJV But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Does not sound like salvation by works to me! "You cannot do it, but God can!"
HE TOLD THE MAN TO DO SOMETHING HE KNEW WAS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE MAN. WHY? It is because we need to know we cannot save ourselves so that we will call on HIM TO SAVE US! JESUS DID NOT TEACH SALVATION BY WORKS.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
The heresy hunters are still with us. Only now, instead of stakes, they use their books and radio programs to destroy those they consider heretics.... I'm concerned that heresy hunting may be turning into leukemia because some cultwatchers seem more intent on destroying parts of the body than healing the body....
That book's very first page of chapter 1 already shows a flaw of understanding. It says Jesus told the rich young ruler to DO things that he might LIVE. The book stops there and says Jesus preached something quite different from Paul when Paul said to believe.
The TRUTH, THOUGH, IS THAT when Jesus asked the rich young ruler to DO things to LIVE, He was trying to show the man that he cannot DO anything to save himself. That is why Jesus wound up telling him to do something He knew the man could not do on his own. Sell all and give to the poor. It so shocked the others, for they all knew there was SOMETHING THEY could LIKEWISE not do in themselves, that we read, "Matthew 19:25 KJV When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?"
Look at His repsonse!
Matthew 19:26 KJV But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
HE TOLD THE MAN TO DO SOMETHING HE KNEW WAS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE MAN. WHY? It is because we need to know we cannot save ourselves so that we will call on HIM TO SAVE US! JESUS DID NOT TEACH SALVATION BY WORKS.
sigh... read the book before you go off like you know all he says. I will deal with your post later as I don't have time today or probably this week.
), I was about to post on this thread a question about this very thing. I was going to ask if Jesus taught salvation by works, and post a bunch of scriptures. Maybe I still will. 
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