Hey, guys, let's lighten up on Luke. He's just passionate. We've all kinda labeled each other one way or another. We disagree about what is perhaps one of the most difficult subjects (perhaps the central subject) of the Bible. It's okay. I know Luke called me OSAS and Reformed and stuff. I let him know that the labels don't actually fit, though I do agree with some of the points in these theologies (not all). But I love Luke. He's debated me on other issues and is a good guy. I know you all agree. I just want to bring this thread up a notch in our interraction.
......
I might disagree with you here and there Luke, but I love you bro. Hang in there.
My apologies if I offended you with my last post, Luke. Just trying to direct you toward a different perspective on the issues. It was meant to be a nudge not a shove.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
This is why I asked if someone obeyed Acts 2:38 are they ready for glory at that moment in time? If one is not counted faithful and able to enter the kingdom without doing good works for God, then is this Acts 2:38 person not faithful since they had no chance to do anything yet? If we are judged at the great white throne for our works to determine heaven or hell and an Acts 2:38 dude had no works to show of since they just got saved and the rapture occurred, are they not going to heaven? This shows that the works we do for the Lord ARE NOT what determine if we go to heaven or not. BAD unatoned-for works determine hell for us, but nothing but the blood of Jesus allows for us to go to glory.
__________________ ...MY THOUGHTS, ANYWAY.
"Many Christians do not try to understand what was written in a verse in the Bible. Instead they approach the passage to prove what they already believe."
Again, let's just cut to the chase. It's easy for people to discuss doctrine, but when the rubber meets the road, it's a different ball game...
For Luke and MTD, what makes you sure you are gonna be in heaven?
Please tell us.
Since, we are "OSAS", "reformed doctrine", and all other sorts, would you please grace us with your knowledge so we can know how to get to heaven?
Good luck getting an answer.
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I'm (sic) not cynical, I just haven't been around long enough to be Jedi mind-tricked by politics as usual. Alas, maybe in a few years I'll be beaten back into the herd. tstew
Sorry Timmy! I value your sense of humor and willingness to challenge our religious assumptions. Helps to stimulate deeper thoughts on every subject we discuss.
This is why I asked if someone obeyed Acts 2:38 are they ready for glory at that moment in time? If one is not counted faithful and able to enter the kingdom without doing good works for God, then is this Acts 2:38 person not faithful since they had no chance to do anything yet? If we are judged at the great white throne for our works to determine heaven or hell and an Acts 2:38 dude had no works to show of since they just got saved and the rapture occurred, are they not going to heaven? This shows that the works we do for the Lord ARE NOT what determine if we go to heaven or not. BAD unatoned-for works determine hell for us, but nothing but the blood of Jesus allows for us to go to glory.
I believe that those who are born again are given a new nature and are in union with Jesus with regards to their spirits. Their soul, or mind, still needs to be renewed. Because of this we often see Christians, including ourselves, acting out of accordance with the new nature we have partaken in. So grace, the unmarited favor of God, rests upon the saint of God. We're "saints" even when we don't act like it. I don't believe that "perfection" is possible on this side of glory, so grace is all we can stand on.
Some may say that efforts contribute to salvation. But that's essentially a spiritual score card of works based salvation. Also I disagree with this notion because it assumes that if we sin less we're not as sinful as those born again Christians who might sin more. Truth is... even if one sin less, they are essentially just as guity in God's eyes as the one who sins more. Both are totally dependent upon the grace of God.
Sorry Timmy! I value your sense of humor and willingness to challenge our religious assumptions. Helps to stimulate deeper thoughts on every subject we discuss.
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
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