Apostolic Friends Forum
Tab Menu 1
Go Back   Apostolic Friends Forum > The Fellowship Hall > Fellowship Hall
Facebook

Notices

Fellowship Hall The place to go for Fellowship & Fun!


View Poll Results: Is the bible infallible?
The bible is infallible, perfect and consistent. 16 66.67%
The bible is true but inconsistent and needs to be reconciled. 6 25.00%
The bible is a good book, but has errors. 2 8.33%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 01-02-2012, 06:53 PM
bbyrd009 bbyrd009 is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 6,178
Re: Is The Bible Infallible?

Ha and justification is dual natured, so your answer is "yes."
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-02-2012, 08:29 PM
Timmy's Avatar
Timmy Timmy is offline
Don't ask.


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 24,212
Re: Is The Bible Infallible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
Ha and justification is dual natured, so your answer is "yes."
Did Paul think of it as double-natured? He said you are saved by faith and not by works.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty

More New Stuff in Timmy Talk!
My Countdown Counting down to: Rapture. Again.
Why am I not surprised?
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-02-2012, 08:30 PM
Timmy's Avatar
Timmy Timmy is offline
Don't ask.


 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 24,212
Re: Is The Bible Infallible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
Why is that? What obligation do you think you have to believe the Bible is true no matter what? Why such fear?

well, and personally, the Bible is for me a reflection of the Word, and can only be clarified, not changed. The Bible is a type that you will not improve upon, and discount "believing is true, no matter what" at your peril.
Some would say disbelieve the Quran at your peril.
__________________
Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty

More New Stuff in Timmy Talk!
My Countdown Counting down to: Rapture. Again.
Why am I not surprised?
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-02-2012, 09:16 PM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,600
Re: Is The Bible Infallible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
Well, that's the advantage of having multiple early copies, the record survives--but see that a good translation in 1690 just cannot be defined the same with the current idiom as a starting point for many concepts in the Bible, leading to an answer for you, I think. The Word will have to have MSS documentation, clear and concise, like "the earth became void" was, to me at least; and then tested. While this may sound like a descent into ?, it is actually easier than ever before in history! Only takes several clicks, now?
Man, just go in to "lexicon" on a problematic Bible verse, on a Bible site, and not emerge with a fuller understanding...IMO.
I mostly agree. We bought a 1560 Geneva Bible with the original footnotes. It is somewhat harder to read because during that day, some letters of the English alphabet were not yet established, such as the "J", the "I" is used for the "J". the "U" and the "V" is interchangeable and the "S" is used mainly at the end of a plural word, but not within the word. Something that looks somewhat like an "f", without the slash through, was used as an "s"

I definitely see changes of words such as in ACTS 12:4

And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

(Acts 12:4) (KJV)

And when he had caught him, he put him in prison, and deliuered him to foure quaternions of souldiers to be kept, intending after the Passeouer to bring him foorth to the people.
(Acts 12:4)(Geneva 1599)

(My computer Bible reference only has the 1599 version on it. A year later from 1560, they corrected many of the spellings in the Bible)

Not intending to start a new squabble over the holidays that Christians celebrate, but I wonder if King James (or his translators) had the word "Easter" inserted to replace the word "Passover" in the original text of the Geneva Bible?

Easter is a pagan celebration of the goddess Eostre according to this site:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/easter1.htm

Noah Webster wrote in the American Dictionary of the English Language 1828
http://1828-dictionary.com/d/word/easter

E'ASTER, n.

A festival of the christian church observed in commemoration of our Savior's resurrection. It answers to the pascha or passover of the Hebrews, and most nations still give it this name, pascha, pask, paque.

However, this website does not elaborate the origin of the word "Easter" that is in the actual hard copy of Noah Webster's 1828 dictionary.

The origin of the word 'Easter':n. [Sax. easter; G. ostern; supposed to be from Eostre, the goddess of love or Venus of the north, in honor of whom a festival was celebrated by our pagan ancestors, in April; whence this month was called Eostermonath. Eoster is supposed by Beda and others to be the Astarte of the Sidonians. See Beda, Cluver, and the authorities cited by Cluver, and b Jamieson, under Pasyad. But query.]

Source: American Dictionary of the English Language 1828 by Noah Webster.
Publisher: Foundation for the American Christian Education

So...knowing that the scriptures have been translated, retranslated and retranslated over and over again, who to say that King James did not deliberately have the word "Passover" replaced with the word "Easter"? Or that his translators may have deceivingly inserted it in that place?

A quick rundown of the time of the yearly Easter celebrations.
Easter is always celebrated on the first Sunday, after the first full moon, after the Spring Equinox.

Passover starts on the 15th day of the Jewish month of Nissan.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/.../holidaya.html

Jewish months of the calendar year: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...ar.html#Months

Sometimes the two celebrations coincide together, other times they are weeks apart. In rare occasions, they can be a whole month apart.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-02-2012, 11:27 PM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: AZ
Posts: 16,746
Re: Is The Bible Infallible?

So is the bible THE "Word of God"? Or is it "merely" inspired by God? One would think if it is THE "Word of God" there would be ZERO errors EVER. I mean, IF it is THE "Word of God" than each and every bible we hold in our hands is a living breathing entity.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-02-2012, 11:50 PM
AreYouReady? AreYouReady? is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,600
Re: Is The Bible Infallible?

I never thought of it in those terms Randy. Perhaps we use the term "Word of God" too loosely? We think in terms that since scripture is given by inspiration of God, it must be the Word of God.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (II Timothy 3:16)
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-03-2012, 06:03 AM
RandyWayne RandyWayne is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: AZ
Posts: 16,746
Re: Is The Bible Infallible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AreYouReady? View Post
I never thought of it in those terms Randy. Perhaps we use the term "Word of God" too loosely? We think in terms that since scripture is given by inspiration of God, it must be the Word of God.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (II Timothy 3:16)
And surely THE "Word of God" is much much bigger then what we see in the printed Word. And "In the Beginning" what language did God speak and how could any human dialect possibly convey it?

Perhaps in absolute terms the "Word" and His "Will" are one and the same and what we know of as the Bible is something altogether separate?
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-03-2012, 06:24 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
Re: Is The Bible Infallible?

I believe that the original texts of the Bible were without error. Translations are often unclear and some are mistaken. For example:
Genesis 49:6 (KJV)
O my soul, come not thou into their secret; unto their assembly, mine honour, be not thou united: for in their anger they slew a man, and in their selfwill they digged down a wall.

Genesis 49:6 (ESV)
6 Let my soul come not into their council;
O my glory, be not joined to their company.
For in their anger they killed men,
and in their willfulness they hamstrung oxen.
Even the OT Hebrew on which the KJV is based clearly states that they gored or "hamstrung oxen". The phrase was obviously a problem with the KJV translators.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-03-2012, 08:15 AM
Nitehawk013 Nitehawk013 is offline
Registered Member


 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,149
Re: Is The Bible Infallible?

I tend to think of "inspired" as God moved a man to write somethign God dealt with him to write. I don't take "Inspired" to mean God took control fo the man and made him write precise things like he was taking dictation from the Almighty.

Another interesting discussion I liek to think about is whether the canon is all the scripture we were really meant to have. After all, it was the majority who defined orthodox and heretical and decided what was apocryphal. Yes some of the apocryphal stuff is nonsense and completely contradicts the overall body of scripture, but others fit well. Some, such as Enoch, are quoted by our own Bible. Paul seems to have felt Enoch's writings were authoritative, yet it is left out of canon. It has some hard to believe stuff in it, but only becase we are conditions to refuse to believe that angels corrupted themselves by mating with women and teaching them "charms" or spells.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-03-2012, 08:25 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
Banned


 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 31,124
Re: Is The Bible Infallible?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitehawk013 View Post
I tend to think of "inspired" as God moved a man to write somethign God dealt with him to write. I don't take "Inspired" to mean God took control fo the man and made him write precise things like he was taking dictation from the Almighty.

Another interesting discussion I liek to think about is whether the canon is all the scripture we were really meant to have. After all, it was the majority who defined orthodox and heretical and decided what was apocryphal. Yes some of the apocryphal stuff is nonsense and completely contradicts the overall body of scripture, but others fit well. Some, such as Enoch, are quoted by our own Bible. Paul seems to have felt Enoch's writings were authoritative, yet it is left out of canon. It has some hard to believe stuff in it, but only becase we are conditions to refuse to believe that angels corrupted themselves by mating with women and teaching them "charms" or spells.
I was told by an Evangelist that some of those writings might be "inspired" by God but not meant for the general population or for "preaching". But rather they are for those who wish to personally delve deeper into spiritual understanding. He believes angels took physical form and took human women, breaking God's ordinance of separation between man and angel. He might believe Enoch is authorative.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What Is the Bible Sam Fellowship Hall 4 12-19-2008 10:10 AM
The infallible Word of God? gdguynbalt Fellowship Hall 45 06-23-2008 11:49 AM
Why do YOU believe the Bible? ReformedDave Deep Waters 181 03-26-2007 08:37 AM

 
User Infomation
Your Avatar

Latest Threads
- by Salome
- by Salome

Help Support AFF!

Advertisement




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:08 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.