To tithe or not to tithe?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Rudy

They will kick you out of fellowship if you don't tithe your money.

Who is "they"?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Rudy

You've heard it now. It happened to me. I was told I was in violation of God's word. This after he told me twice he had no problem with it. I asked him before I went there would it undermine his ministry, he said no.

And they kicked you out?

[Dordrecht]

Originally Posted by Rudy

You simply are going to be shunned. You will be told you're going to hell! Will you stay in that environment?

I'm a radical environmentalist.

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by Rudy

Where is a tithe of money commanded for the new covenant?

I see no command to tithe money here.

The command in 1Cor 9:14 (ordained = commanded) for ministerial support is to be based on that which preceded the command. Paul said "even so", which means "so also" or "in like manner". What precedes the command is Paul's direct reference to the Levitical tithing system in vs. 13. Notice Paul did not tell the church "give your ministers the Levitical tithe". What he said was "support them in like manner". He was appealing to the underlying principle of the Levitical system- which was the tithe, or tenth. He wasn't appealing to all of the minutia codified within the Levitical law, only the principle.

Answer the questions IMO does not show tithing money in the new covenant. Guessing- Customary, possibly land tax.

In Hebrews 7, the writer is comparing and contrasting the Levitical priesthood with the Melchisedec priesthood. One way he demonstrates that the latter is greater than the former is that the former paid tithes to Melchisedec through their father Levi by way of Abraham. So what Abraham paid to Melchisedec was not a land tax, but a tithe- a tenth. The word "tithe" means a tenth.

Answer the questions IMO does not show tithing money in the new covenant. Guessing-to the poor.

You're right, that would be guessing, because Jacob's vow to tithe was before the Law, and so the third year tithe to the poor was not yet introduced in Scripture. However, we do see another reference to tithing BEFORE Jacob's vow, and that was when Abraham paid tithes to a priest after the Melchisedec order: Melchisedec himself.

Where is it recorded it succeeded it?

Hebrews 7. The Melchisedec priesthood replaced the Levitical priesthood (vs. 12).

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

Ummm..those guys Peter was talking about DEPARTED from walking in Christ. They were NO LONGER in Christ.

2 Peter 2
20 For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21 For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

A person cannot be UNDER the curse of God if they're in Christ. That's the whole point of the cross.

This gets into the whole discussion of the difference between backsliding and falling away, which is an interesting discussion, but one which probably would require its own thread. If you'd like to start a thread on this, I'd be happy to participate.

In short, the purpose of the "curse" is to bring God's people back to him. It serves as a hedge, so to speak, but obviously we can choose to be willfully disobedient to God's commandments and move into an area where the curse applies.

Wait, let me get this straight, if my Pastor has said UNEQUIVOCALLY that he will not receive tithes, which means I do not need to bring tithes to my place of worship. So I am not cursed in that case.

But if the Pastor decides to receive tithes, and I do not bring it, I am cursed.

Cool, the solution is very simple to me: "Go to a church where the pastor does not receive tithes...and you won't be cursed."

Your pastor receiving the tithe, and you bringing it into the church, are two separate things. You bring it in obedience to God's command; your pastor either uses it to support himself or uses it for SOME OTHER GODLY PURPOSE, for as a steward of God's resources (1Cor 4:2), he will be judged how he uses it.

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by TGBTG

What is funny is Paul was not even appealing to tithes in 1 Cor 9. He was appealing to Levitical duties that were performed in the temple.

1 Cor 9 (KJV)
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

1 Cor 9 (ESV)
13 Do you not know that those who are employed in the temple service get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in the sacrificial offerings?

Leviticus 2
1 And when any will offer a meat offering unto the Lord, his offering shall be of fine flour; and he shall pour oil upon it, and put frankincense thereon:
2 And he shall bring it to Aaron's sons the priests: and he shall take thereout his handful of the flour thereof, and of the oil thereof, with all the frankincense thereof; and the priest shall burn the memorial of it upon the altar, to be an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord:
3 And the remnant of the meat offering shall be Aaron's and his sons': it is a thing most holy of the offerings of the Lord made by fire.

The levites were to eat whatever was left of the sacrifices offered in the temple. And Paul was saying by the Lord's command "Support those that preach the gospel"

It does not even have to be money. Yes, money is probably one of the easiest ways to support, but it does not have to be money.

The basis or underlying principle of the Levitical system was the tithe. Paul was not telling the church to give their ministers the Levitical tithe, because the Levitical tithe went to the Levitical priesthood. What he did say was "so also", meaning "even so" or "in like manner".

And you're correct: a tithe does not have to be money. It is based on however one is increased. Every summer my wife grows a garden, and when she harvests it she literally pays a tenth of the harvest as the tithe. To the Galatians, Paul said those who are taught in the Word should "communicate" to the teacher "in all good things" (Gal 6:6). The writer of Hebrews, in the same context of submitting to church leadership, also speaks of "communicating" (Heb 13:16-17). So, no, it doesn't have to be limited to money.

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by Rudy

They will kick you out of fellowship if you don't tithe your money.

No, not in our church.

[DaveC519]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I have posed this question over the years (maybe even had a poll at one time) but

Do you think one who does NOT believe in mandatory "tithing" generally gives more or less?

Hello Hoovie,

I personally give much more than the tenth of my increase. I practice what I've heard labeled "open hand giving".

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

Hello Hoovie,

I personally give much more than the tenth of my increase. I practice what I've heard labeled "open hand giving".

Is that like Kung Fu Charity?

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by DaveC519

The command in 1Cor 9:14 (ordained = commanded) for ministerial support is to be based on that which preceded the command. Paul said "even so", which means "so also" or "in like manner". What precedes the command is Paul's direct reference to the Levitical tithing system in vs. 13. Notice Paul did not tell the church "give your ministers the Levitical tithe". What he said was "support them in like manner". He was appealing to the underlying principle of the Levitical system- which was the tithe, or tenth. He wasn't appealing to all of the minutia codified within the Levitical law, only the principle.

In Hebrews 7, the writer is comparing and contrasting the Levitical priesthood with the Melchisedec priesthood. One way he demonstrates that the latter is greater than the former is that the former paid tithes to Melchisedec through their father Levi by way of Abraham. So what Abraham paid to Melchisedec was not a land tax, but a tithe- a tenth. The word "tithe" means a tenth.

You're right, that would be guessing, because Jacob's vow to tithe was before the Law, and so the third year tithe to the poor was not yet introduced in Scripture. However, we do see another reference to tithing BEFORE Jacob's vow, and that was when Abraham paid tithes to a priest after the Melchisedec order: Melchisedec himself.


Hebrews 7. The Melchizedek priesthood replaced the Levitical priesthood (vs. 12).

If you are going to use the Levitical as a comparison then I can tithe food items. You can't use that as a comparison then jump on ole Melchizedek.

Abraham tithed nothing of his as recorded. So therefore when I win a battle I'll tithe war booty.

Tithing filthy lucre as a command is just not in the new covenant. Supporting ministry is there if a laborer in the Gospel wants and needs it.

I'm fully aware of what a tenth is.

Bouncing back and forth is not hermeneutically sound.