To tithe or not to tithe?

[Jacob's Ladder]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

I doubt Abraham took all his possessions to a war. So I believe it was his possessions
from the war

This was before the law. We are not under law nor was Abraham.

His tithe went to a priest of God before there was a levitical priesthood.

As I said, tithing predates the law

Praxeas,


We read in Genesis 14-11,12,14,

11) The four kings seized all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah and all their food; then they went away.

12) They also carried off Abram’s nephew Lot and his possessions, since he was living in Sodom.

14) He (Abraham) recovered all the goods and brought back his relative Lot and his possessions, together with the women and the other people.


The scriptures clearly read that Abraham "recovered" that which didn't belong to him. He tithed from property that wasn't of his ownership?

Praxeas, humor me, yes? If I burglarized your home and took $50,000 from your sock drawer, would I be required to tithe ten percent of that $50,000? A simple no or yes would suffice.

Okay, let's assume Abraham tithed ten percent of recovered and stolen property to Melchizedek. How does one conclude tithing is required from that isolated event on this day and hour?


Regards,
Jacob's Ladder

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

Praxeas,


We read in Genesis 14-11,12,14,

11) The four kings seized all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah and all their food; then they went away.

12) They also carried off Abram’s nephew Lot and his possessions, since he was living in Sodom.

14) He (Abraham) recovered all the goods and brought back his relative Lot and his possessions, together with the women and the other people.


The scriptures clearly read that Abraham "recovered" that which didn't belong to him. He tithed from property that wasn't of his ownership?

Praxeas, humor me, yes? If I burglarized your home and took $50,000 from your sock drawer, would I be required to tithe ten percent of that $50,000? A simple no or yes would suffice.

Okay, let's assume Abraham tithed ten percent of recovered and stolen property to Melchizedek. How does one conclude tithing is required from that isolated event on this day and hour?


Regards,
Jacob's Ladder

That he recovered the lost possessions was never in doubt.

Abraham did not tithe on other people's possesssions. He tithed on what he gained from the war with the other kings, not on the King of Sodom's possessions.

How do we know that?

After tithing he then gives ALL of the King of Sodom's possessions in return.

Abraham did not steal anything.

Abraham defeated the confederate kings. It's a common biblical principle, to the victor belong the spoils

Example:
Num 31:9 The Israelites took the women of Midian captives along with their little ones, and took all their herds, all their flocks, and all their goods as plunder.
Num 31:10 They burned all their towns that they had inhabited and all their encampments.
Num 31:11 They took all the plunder and all the spoils, both people and animals.

1Ch 26:26 This Shelomoth and his brothers were in charge of all the treasuries of the dedicated gifts that David the king and the heads of the fathers' houses and the officers of the thousands and the hundreds and the commanders of the army had dedicated.
1Ch 26:27 From spoil won in battles they dedicated gifts for the maintenance of the house of the LORD.

Exo 3:22 But every woman shall ask of her neighbor, and of her that stays in her house, jewels of silver and jewels of gold and clothing. And you shall put them upon your sons and upon your daughters. And you shall plunder the Egyptians.

2Ki 7:16 And the people went out and plundered the tents of the Syrians. And it happened, a measure of fine flour was sold for a shekel, and two measures of barley for a shekel, according to the Word of Jehovah.


That is what Hebrews tells us

Heb 7:4 See how great this man was to whom Abraham the patriarch gave a tenth of the spoils!

He did not steal anything. He won these in war. That is what your bible says.

[Jacob's Ladder]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

That he recovered the lost possessions was never in doubt.

He did not steal anything. He won these in war. That is what your bible says.

Praxeas,

Before I respond to your post, I'm going to repost question you overlooked. Perhaps you can answer it? The first one:

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

Praxeas,

Which principle was God establishing with the following event?

Genesis 28:22-22 reads:

20) Then Jacob made a vow, saying, “if God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear

21) so that I return safely to my father’s household, then the LORD will be my God

22) and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God’s house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth.”


We clearly read Jacob giving God terms and conditions, which God must adhere to before Jacob gave a tenth of “his” possessions. In short, Jacob states, God, only if you bless me first, then shall I give you a tenth! This in itself contradicts modern-day tithe teachings. Again, which principle was god establishing when he agreed to Jacob’s terms? As we read Jacob’s story, it’s evident that God accepted Jacob’s proposition.

Again, which principle was God establishing with this event?


Regards,
Jacob's Ladder

[Jacob's Ladder]

Praxeas,

Here's the second question you overlooked. Please answer.

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

Okay, let's assume Abraham tithed ten percent of recovered and stolen property to Melchizedek. How does one conclude tithing is required from that isolated event on this day and hour?

Regards,
Jacob's Ladder

[Aquila]

Any Jew can explain what the biblical tithe was all about. History is solid on how "tithing" became incorporated into Christianity by the Roman Catholic Church as a land tax. History also tells us about how the Protestant churches carried tithing over as something akin to membership dues. And today it has been carried over into Pentecostalism as a commandment of God.

The biblical NT answer is... "Grace Giving" (financial vows of commitment and love offerings).

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

Praxeas,

Before I respond to your post, I'm going to repost question you overlooked. Perhaps you can answer it? The first one:



Again, which principle was God establishing with this event?


Regards,
Jacob's Ladder

He made a vow to serve God, to make Yhwh his God. As part of that commitment he also committed to give a tenth of all to the LORD

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

Praxeas,

Here's the second question you overlooked. Please answer.





Regards,
Jacob's Ladder

I won't assume something I don't agree with. I did not over-look this question

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

Praxeas,

Here's the second question you overlooked. Please answer.





Regards,
Jacob's Ladder

I also never said tithing is required from this story

[Rudy]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Any Jew can explain what the biblical tithe was all about. History is solid on how "tithing" became incorporated into Christianity by the Roman Catholic Church as a land tax. History also tells us about how the Protestant churches carried tithing over as something akin to membership dues. And today it has been carried over into Pentecostalism as a commandment of God.

The biblical NT answer is... "Grace Giving" (financial vows of commitment and love offerings).

I agree and the only way to get free from it is for those with organizing/managing skills to start planting assemblies. This will of course take great sacrifice. I know of several churches in the Apostolic way and one trinity pentecostal that don't force tithing money.

We all need to get moving on this.

[Aquila]

Clearly those who have vowed to give a "tithe" of their income are bound by that vow.