The Apostle's Creed:

[houston]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I agree. But I've attended a lot of Catholic Churches, i.e. regular Mass, weddings, funerals, in Texas over a 23 year span and never heard anyone recite "apostolic" in the Creed.

Sweetie, Am from CA.

[houston]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Guess it was not the original I grew up on... Here it is!

THE NICENE CREED (more properly called the Nicene-Constantinople Creed), came to us in its final form from the great Council of Constantinople in 381. This is the Creed which Catholics recite at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass...

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven. By the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended in heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Oh, weird. We did that one and called it the Apostle's Creed.

[houston]

I was confused. Don't tell PO.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by houston

Sweetie, Am from CA.

Awww, that was so sweet, I just got a cavity.

Originally Posted by houston

I was confused. Don't tell PO.

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Guess it was not the original I grew up on... Here it is!

THE NICENE CREED (more properly called the Nicene-Constantinople Creed), came to us in its final form from the great Council of Constantinople in 381. This is the Creed which Catholics recite at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass...

We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven. By the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended in heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen.

While not always apparent to the average believer, this points to the problem with creedal theology. When we become more familiar with the man made creeds than we are our Bibles, our theology and understanding becomes distorted.

The problems with the above creed should be obvious to any Oneness believer. They stand out like a "sore thumb."

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by houston

Oh, weird. We did that one and called it the Apostle's Creed.

Us too... I'd say maybe it's a Cali thing but St. John Of The Cross in New Caney, St. Martha's in Kingwood and Holy Ghost Catholic church in Bellaire all do the same one I was raised on and they are all right here in Tejas

Hummm...

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

While not always apparent to the average believer, this points to the problem with creedal theology. When we become more familiar with the man made creeds than we are our Bibles, our theology and understanding becomes distorted.

The problems with the above creed should be obvious to any Oneness believer. They stand out like a "sore thumb."

Couple of issues with this statement... While we may all have 'bibles' now when the creeds were written this was just NOT the case.... and even the few living monastic lives who had access to 'bibles' did not have the 'bibles' that are on my bookshelf in 8 versions and on my computer in 29+. Much of religion was oral tradition. The creeds served to help believers remember in what (who) they had placed their faith.

You would have to show me the 'sore thumbs' here. I still love the Apostles creed an one of my biggest disappointments in DKB was the way he villianized those who wrote them as if their sole purpose was to screw up someones theology. Good grief.

[larrylyates]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

Couple of issues with this statement... While we may all have 'bibles' now when the creeds were written this was just NOT the case.... and even the few living monastic lives who had access to 'bibles' did not have the 'bibles' that are on my bookshelf in 8 versions and on my computer in 29+. Much of religion was oral tradition. The creeds served to help believers remember in what (who) they had placed their faith.

You would have to show me the 'sore thumbs' here. I still love the Apostles creed an one of my biggest disappointments in DKB was the way he villianized those who wrote them as if their sole purpose was to screw up someones theology. Good grief.

As a student and now teacher of the History of Christian Doctrine, I'm afraid I have to side with DKB on this one. The creedal development was heavily influenced by pagan ideology and Greek philosophy. The story behind them is one of intrigue, political machinations and false doctrine.

[Titus2woman]

Originally Posted by larrylyates

As a student and now teacher of the History of Christian Doctrine, I'm afraid I have to side with DKB on this one. The creedal development was heavily influenced by pagan ideology and Greek philosophy. The story behind them is one of intrigue, political machinations and false doctrine.

I've read all three volumes of his History of Christian Doctrine. While I appreciate much about it and agree with the less than pure motives of many of the church fathers, I still believe that we had then exactly what we have now, your basic power struggle. Since the beginning people have been warring for their own views of God to be the most correct, the most accepted, the most popular and sometimes even the ONLY instead of the most.

Today when I read or speak the Apostles Creed and I am not focused on being theologically correct but rather I am reminded only of how many faithful, over millennia, have recited it with a pure heart and a genuine desire to be pleasing to God, I feel the ties that bind me to those souls who have finished their courses well... and I find no fault.

It is sad to me that many Apostolics have thrown the baby out with the bath water and claim so little precious church history as their own, essentially believing that the world was in apostasy for almost two thousand years until Azuza Street.

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by Titus2woman

I've read all three volumes of his History of Christian Doctrine. While I appreciate much about it and agree with the less than pure motives of many of the church fathers, I still believe that we had then exactly what we have now, your basic power struggle. Since the beginning people have been warring for their own views of God to be the most correct, the most accepted, the most popular and sometimes even the ONLY instead of the most.

Today when I read or speak the Apostles Creed and I am not focused on being theologically correct but rather I am reminded only of how many faithful, over millennia, have recited it with a pure heart and a genuine desire to be pleasing to God, I feel the ties that bind me to those souls who have finished their courses well... and I find no fault.

It is sad to me that many Apostolics have thrown the baby out with the bath water and claim so little precious church history as their own, essentially believing that the world was in apostasy for almost two thousand years until Azuza Street.