No, I'm not trying to make it synonymous with 'apostolic'. I'm stating the fact that the behavior occurs and it usually occurs in those cult-like sects who label themselves 'apostolic'.
And that is what Im trying to tell you that NO it does NOT usually occur in those that label themselves Apostolic.
And they are no more a cult than your Arian view
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
First, the JW's have a little different twist on it. Medical care is ok as long as it doesn't involve blood transfusion. Their doctrine is just as satanic and twisted as the 'apostolic' doctrine which results in the suffering, and sometimes death, of a child.
You, as well as others here, haven't given your view on the source of the spirit which causes folks to practice such behavior. Is it from God? Is it not from God?
Are 'apostolics' and JWs who practice such things following God? In other words, is God leading them to watch their children suffer, and sometimes die, when medical help is available and helpful?
Be bold, be plain. Plainly tell us if such behavior is from God or not.
It's not an Apostolic doctrine.
__________________ Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
Every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
I don't respect any religious conviction which results in the suffering, and sometimes death, of an infant and child. I have zero tolerance for such evil theology. Why on earth would you respect religious convictions which abuse children, the innocent?
The pastors who preach or allow such behavior are evil.
1Sa 15:1
¶ Samuel also said unto Saul, The LORD sent me to anoint thee to be king over his people, over Israel: now therefore hearken thou unto the voice of the words of the LORD.
1Sa 15:2 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt.
1Sa 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
Samuel was not of God, was evil, and preached an evil theology, eh? Samuel commanded MORE than 'don't take a sick child to the hospital', he commanded GENOCIDE against an entire ethnic group, the Amalekites.
1Sa 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
Samuel was not of God, was evil, and preached an evil theology, eh? Samuel commanded MORE than 'don't take a sick child to the hospital', he commanded GENOCIDE against an entire ethnic group, the Amalekites.
The reason I'm asking is that you don't see this kind of behavior in most Christian sects. There is something in the message, in the 'apostolic' theology which lends itself to people doing this. I was just curious why you came to the conclusion that God would be pleased with allowing your child to suffer if your pastor didn't teach that particular docrine.
I was soundly criticized by some on here for bringing up the practice of some 'apostolics' to do this very thing, even to the point of the death of their child. What is being preached that would convince a person that such behavior is pleasing to God? Something is in that culture, in that theology, which would lend itself to practicing theology which had tragic consequences.
This is what epley didn't want to discuss, to answer.
I find nothing in the apostolic theology which lends itself to people doing this. this, after some 40 years in the apostolic faith. Nor did I come to a conclusion that God would be pleased with allowing my child to suffer.
When Jesus filled me with the Holy Ghost, it was the most wonderful of times. Testing my infant faith in God's healing power was just one of many missteps in my spiritual childhood. I used to go about slaying trinitarians with the Word of God, until my pastor pointed out how little I was actually helping anyone. So yes, I've made many mistakes growing in the Lord. My pastor had his hands full, training up a child in the way he should go.
But these missteps are not an indictment on the apostolic faith. Just a spiritually young boy, taking sips from the spiritual fire hydrant of this newfound Holy Ghost power.
It would seem that you have an agenda on this forum, seek, to malign the apostolic faith wherever you see the opportunity. Well, while I still have missteps in the Spirit, I've grown up now. And I have no problem defending the faith once delivered to the saints. If you really want to match swords, perhaps you will visit the debate room, and engage the challenge I posted in the Godhead room. We can start there, and move on to whatever else you'd like to trash about the apostolic faith.
Seekerman, you are confusing respecting one's religious convictions--even when they are disagreeable or even repugnant--with agreeing with them or endorsing them.
The reason it is difficult to hate someone or treat them badly because of religious beliefs is because their belief is intertwined with sincere love for God. People who are willing to put their own lives or their children's lives in danger in order to express their faith are people who believe what they believe to the core. It may be misguided, but it can't be ripped out of them.
No, I do NOT believe that God is pleased with a person allowing their child to suffer, but at the same time, I understand their sincere ignorance. Not in the sense that I am commiserating, but from the angle of knowing that people do bad and stupid things for noble reasons. My own father nearly let me die out of the same misguided notion when I was 2. My grandfather finally overrode him and took me to the hospital. Ironically, two days later, our pastor came in and prayed for me and I was completely healed and released from the hospital that same afternoon. My Dad never spoke against doctors again--and I can assure you that he loved me very much. He did, however, feel that he was put in the position of having to choose between faith in God and his child, and his convictions made him make a choice that I feel was sincerely ignorant. He wasn't bad or evil; he was just a fallible human being.
What is the point of haranguing people for things they feel so deeply in their heart, they can never in good conscience make a different choice? Their ignorance can make you sad, or even angry, but I think it's still easy to see where it comes from.
Very good, Miss B.
__________________
Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
And that is what Im trying to tell you that NO it does NOT usually occur in those that label themselves Apostolic.
And they are no more a cult than your Arian view
I wasn't clear with my statement. I should have said that within oneness pentecostalism, the behavior usually occurs in those who call themselves 'apostolic'. Within oneness pentecostalism, the more conservative they are, the more cult-like they become and the more likely the practice of allowing children to suffer, and sometimes die, will occur. Within oneness pentecostalism, those people will almost always self-label themselves as 'apostolic' and and be subject to a domineering pastorate who must be followed, even to the point of the abuse of children. This isn't painting all oneness pentecostals as such for most aren't, but it is recognizing the fact that the more 'apostolic' a group is, the more conservative they are in their dress and beliefs and behavior. In other words, the more cult-like they become.
Yes, but when a child doesn't get his healing, why allow him to suffer....and sometimes die?
What theology would teach such a thing?
The Bible says what do do when someone is sick, and it is very specific and clear. It says what will happen if you follow those instructions. It says you can do anything with faith. It says God will do anything you ask.
Is the Bible wrong?!?!
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Hebrews 13:23 Know ye that our brother Timothy is set at liberty
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