My Talk With God:

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Other verses for our consideration:

Ezekiel 22:26,



God was upset with His priesthood for not doing this. It is the same God over both Covenants. God still cares about separation between what He considers holy/clean and what He considered profane/unclean.

Here's proof:

Ezekiel 44:23,



This is future tense, prophetic language, which is supposed to come to fruition during the era of Ezekiel's vision, i.e. the era of New Jerusalem, or the New Covenant church.

There is no way we can, as New Covenant priests unto God, fulfill our duties to Him if we do not, in some way, make moral distinctions between saved and lost, holy and unholy, Godly and ungodly.

There is only one way to do this: lists.

We may argue and mangle the lists sometimes, and I don't for a second think that any one human has got it all figured out perfectly. But nor do I for one second think that the Lord would have any umbrage with His people trying to their best to do exactly what He commands us to do, even though we at times fail.

Galatians 1:6-9,



However we take these verses, the fact remains that some have become accursed. God has anathematized them for preaching another Gospel.

The Gospel, by its very definition, must include an application, or else it cannot be obeyed. So any preaching of a so-called Gospel, that either mis-represents what the Gospel proper is, or does not give the Biblical application, by default, is "another Gospel". Those who preach such, even if they are an angel from heaven, or even if they do so ignorantly, are accursed.

Notice I said nothing about Acts 2:38. I didn't even mention 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 until just now. But the principle, whatever personal feelings and beliefs we have on the matter, is still true.

This means that another separation must be made, a "list" of who is and who is not preaching the accepted Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Romans 16:17-18,



This verse has no application whatsoever if it is not obeyed literally to the letter. A "list" must be generated by the Church of the Living God of who is and who is not marked. These schismatics must be pointed out to the rest of Body.

This is a division that God Himself causes. Paul, by the Lord Jesus, commanded that the fornicator in Corinth be ex-communicated (1 Corinthians 5). This means the fornicator had to be publicly acknowledged as fallen and recognized for his sin in front of the whole assembly, humiliated, and cast out.

It is our sovereign duty to obey the Word of God in such matters. This isn't a matter of "religions", this is a matter of eternal salvation.

Finally, Matthew 25:31-33,



In the rest of the parable, the Lord gives us the criteria for determining who is a sheep and who is a goat. Why would the Lord do this unless He wants us to be able to tell the difference, i.e. judge and so separate, the one from the other?

We are warned of "false prophets", "false brethren", and even "false apostles". We have to be able to tell the difference between the real and the fake. The only way we can do this is by doing the very thing Aquila said the Lord said divides us.

Is it wrong that the "one faith" of Jesus Christ has become so fractured and damaged? Yes! It is wrong. Is it our fault that this is the case? Well, it's not His fault, is it?

But we can't just simply embrace everyone and everything that says it's of Christ, simply for the saying. We have to reject much that comes across our path. Remember the words of our Savior:

If any man say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or lo, there is Christ, believe him not!

We are commanded to reject out of hand many, many people, ideologies, doctrines, values, and beliefs. Ecumenicism is not from God.

So even though we often make a mess of things, and don't always do right, the fact that some are sincerely and genuinely trying their very best to be led by the Spirit to obey these cardinal teachings, even if it means division, is laudable to say the least.

There is a reason, after all, why Christ gave us gifts after He ascended to heaven. They are for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry until we all come into the unity of the faith. The Lord knew (and knows) without these gifts, there is no true unity, which is to say, dis-unity is the starting point.

So how is this (bolded) working out for the church or the world??? I don't believe the church is using the gifts very effectively.

[KeptByTheWord]

Votivesoul... in all due respect, I believe Aquila was speaking of man-made lists, not the ones God has provided to us in his Word. I believe Aquila was speaking of the add-ons such as what the Pharisees had been doing when Jesus railed against them. In Matt. 5:20, Jesus said unless your righteousness EXCEEDS the righteousness of the Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I've heard Aquila say many times that he respects the ten commandments, and believes in holiness, and separation unto the Lord. But it seems the "lists" he was talking about were the lists that man makes, and adds to... and not the ones we find in God's word.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Jesus has called us to follow, imitate, and become like Him. The basics of what you are saying is truth. In the end, we are all probably going to have some doctrine that is not quite right. We see through a glass darkly. Some things we think we surely understand, but some day we may discover that what we thought we understood, really was not so.

But, what we will be judged upon is not the exact understanding, or knowledge that we had, but how closely we attained to becoming the image of Jesus Christ. Judgement day will consist of the judgment of our heart motives, and desires, and how our hearts aligned to the teachings of Christ.

Jesus ushered in a kingdom of love. A kingdom where love rules and reigns. A kingdom where you count it an honor to suffer for Christ, a kingdom where you give until you have nothing left to give. A kingdom where being a servant is the highest calling. A kingdom where the heart's greatest treasures are not of the world we exist in, but in the world to come. A kingdom that calls upon each one to die. A death to self, flesh, and sin. A call to become one with Christ, which means: His will, not ours. When we become one in fellowship with Christ, obedience out of love becomes the law in our hearts.

God help us all to understand the kingdom of Jesus is upside down to the world's standards. His kingdom wealth is not in finances, beauty, fame, or health. His kingdom wealth is in suffering, loving, sacrificing, obedience, giving, sharing, dying. These are the things that become treasures in heaven. How rich are we in the light of these heavenly treasures? How much have we suffered? How much have we loved? How much have we given away? How much have we died out to self? These are the things that bring rewards in God's kingdom.

God help us all to realize that love is the greatest key to the kingdom of heaven. Love of God, and love for one another. By those two commandments, will our lives be measured. It is a standard that that our flesh doesn't want to obey, and seeks to circumvent in all ways possible. Our flesh seeks to find an easier way, the prosperity gospel way, the legalistic doctrine way, the mega grace way... but there is only one real way.

It is falling in love with Jesus, and having the image of Jesus burned on our hearts and minds so indelibly that we seek to imitate Him, love like Him, live like Him, and if necessary, be willing to die as He did. This is the love Jesus spoke of, and this is the love that must be a living force in our lives, if we want to reign with Jesus in eternity.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Was Jesus a legalistic Pharisee? Remember that long list of do's and donts he commanded his disciples?

Read Matthew 5-7 sometime.

Michael, those are not to be regarded as a body of law, but rather a practice, a path, a way.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Some of us don't look at the teachings of Christ as mere "lists". His words are spirit and they are life.

Christ's words are not a body of law. Christ's words are a path, a practice, a way of faith for those who are saved and called of God. A path followed by those who live by the Law of Love.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by ILG

I pretty much agree, Aquila. I have felt God leading me into a path that simply does not judge. Even when people do things I dislike or disagree with, that to me might be wrong, I don't know where they are in their walk or journey. I have no right to judge them. I can pray for them and hope they find their way, which may or may not be what I deem to be right or correct. Faith is a journey.

Amen. You have the revelation. God once spoke to me thusly...

Don't judge others merely because they "sin" against some list in a different manner than you do. But rather judge righteous judgment. All things are lawful, but not all things are expedient. How does what is in question serve your spirit? Does it make you more loving? Does it make you more like Me? Does it demonstrate love to others? If not, then it is sin.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson

Some of us add to the teachings of Christ, with good intentions of course, but some of us do add.

Eve added to God's command, right before she broke it.

Amen. I've been guilty of this too! lol

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Votivesoul... in all due respect, I believe Aquila was speaking of man-made lists, not the ones God has provided to us in his Word. I believe Aquila was speaking of the add-ons such as what the Pharisees had been doing when Jesus railed against them. In Matt. 5:20, Jesus said unless your righteousness EXCEEDS the righteousness of the Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I've heard Aquila say many times that he respects the ten commandments, and believes in holiness, and separation unto the Lord. But it seems the "lists" he was talking about were the lists that man makes, and adds to... and not the ones we find in God's word.

Amen. I believe that God's focus when we were speaking were the man-made laws. However, God did mention something interesting:

Some say you must keep the Ten Commandments that I delivered to Moses to give to my people. Some of you expand upon these and add feast days, Sabbaths, dietary regulations, linguistic nuances of eccentricity wherein you think you are shown to be wise, yet you are looking foolish in your conceits. You want to be so much like my people… but not like me. You fail to realize… I’m the eternal, the constant, the source; the Alpha, the Omega, the beginning, the ending, the all in all, the great I AM that I AM… I’m not Catholic, Protestant, or Evangelical… neither am I Jewish. I’m GOD. Still some of you have codified my teachings into a strict body of church law in which you seek to please me by changing your “behavior”… but not your “being”. Teachings of mine were for spiritual development, they were not intended to be turned into dry do’s and don’ts to maintain a religious status quo. Then some of you codified the methods with which I addressed issues in Israel or the first generation of churches... making them “commandments” instead of seeing the spirit behind the reasoning. A reasoning that endures in any context, be it time or culture.

We often cherry pick a body of lists out of God's Word. For example, we pick a commandment here, a commandment there, and tack on the Ten Commandments at the end to make them sound official. The Law is a whole. It can't be divided. To obey any laws out of the law at the expense of ignoring others is (as God said) a form of hypocrisy. We either obey the entire law as a whole... or we must admit that we are not bound by it. And that's what I've come to realize. I'm not bound by it. However, I'm bound by a different eternal law... a Law of Love.

1.) Love God with all your being.
2.) Demonstrate your love for God by loving others as yourself.

Jesus and Paul summed it up as follows:

Matthew 22:37-40
King James Version (KJV)
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Romans 13:9
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

In simply loving (both Godward and others-ward) we obey a higher law that fulfills the just requirements of the entire Law as delivered to Israel... because we are living by it's spiritual essence, not it's letter.

For example, keeping the Sabbath. We keep the Sabbath every day. How? We rest from the works of the law and the works of the flesh. We live in the Spirit daily. Now, every single day is holy unto the LORD. Merely keeping the Fourth Commandment and making one day out of seven isn't enough. In fact, it would be lowering the bar from what the Law of Love would demand.

Even this is a "list" of sorts:

1.) Love God.
2.) Love others.

However, it is the final list provided by God. And... it's universal in scope and application. It is timeless, or eternal, in that it isn't bound by culture, language, or time. It can be applied in any setting imaginable.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Whenever a believer in Messiah Jesus speaks or writes on His behalf, especially in the first person, as though the Lord was speaking through the person, they are, at the very least, implying that they are a prophet. And at the very most, they are outright proclaiming themselves to be such, for this is the best, most literal definition of a prophet: a mouthpiece or spokesperson for God.

I had to offer a response to this statement. I see your logic, but I wouldn't call myself a prophet. I'm just as tragically flawed as anyone else. I just had to share what I felt God tell me. I was too scared to share it when it first happened. I was afraid people would think I was crazy. However, from that moment I did begin applying the logic and principles of what I felt that God was telling me. Michael pointed this out well in the beginning of this thread. This isn't a fiery or booming, "Thus saith the LORD..." kind of admonition that I've heard or read form those who do walk in the prophetic. I don't think I come close to being a prophet. And I definitely wouldn't call myself a prophet.

I just wanted to try to clarify. Because I think we have enough self proclaimed prophets running around. I'm just a brother sharing something that he believes God told him.

[kclee4jc]

Because they received not the love of the truth...