But, but, but lists make us feel comfortable, safe and saved... You are speaking right to the very thing that God has been showing me. We love lists. They are easy to get familiar with, check off and find comfort. God is calling us away from our lists and into the ragged edge of the unknown parts of His spirit. This makes the traditional folk very uncomfortable. I'm not talking about getting out of the Book, there is plenty of depth to its truths to explore. We've only scratched the surface if what it means to be sons and heirs to a mighty God. I better stop before I issue an altar call. Ha ha . This thread stirs me. Thanks for posting this.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. - Benjamin Franklin
-Commit2013-
I pretty much agree, Aquila. I have felt God leading me into a path that simply does not judge. Even when people do things I dislike or disagree with, that to me might be wrong, I don't know where they are in their walk or journey. I have no right to judge them. I can pray for them and hope they find their way, which may or may not be what I deem to be right or correct. Faith is a journey.
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Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt the people doing it. ~Chinese Proverb
When I was young and clever, I wanted to change the world. Now that I am older and wiser, I strive to change myself. ~
It's been said that, "Just a little talk with Jesus makes it right." Well, I tried this. And what happened has left me astounded. I was speaking to the LORD in prayer recently I began to ask Him, "Why are we so divided?", and, "What must I do to be holy?" And this is the message that I felt burning in my heart so hot that I had to simply type it out as the power overwhelmed me… (I paraphrase in that it all came as a block of emotions to my spirit... not necessarily words). So, here it is... my little talk with the LORD....
"Why are we so divided?"
"What must I do to be holy?"
My child, I will tell you why you are all so divided. It is your religions. They are not of me. Each of you has a list. A list of do’s and don’ts. And each of you think that I authored your respective lists. Baptists have their list, Catholics have their lists, Pentecostals have their lists, Methodists have their lists, Lutherans have their lists, Charismatics have their lists, Messianics have their lists, Episcopals have their lists… each list is different. I’m not a God of confusion. Each list is a doctrine of man. Some say you must keep the Ten Commandments that I delivered to Moses to give to my people. Some of you expand upon these and add feast days, Sabbaths, dietary regulations, linguistic nuances of eccentricity wherein you think you are shown to be wise, yet you are looking foolish in your conceits. You want to be so much like my people… but not like me. You fail to realize… I’m the eternal, the constant, the source; the Alpha, the Omega, the beginning, the ending, the all in all, the great I AM that I AM… I’m not Catholic, Protestant, or Evangelical… neither am I Jewish. I’m GOD. Still some of you have codified my teachings into a strict body of church law in which you seek to please me by changing your “behavior”… but not your “being”. Teachings of mine were for spiritual development, they were not intended to be turned into dry do’s and don’ts to maintain a religious status quo. Then some of you codified the methods with which I addressed issues in Israel or the first generation of churches... making them “commandments” instead of seeing the spirit behind the reasoning. A reasoning that endures in any context, be it time or culture. Then you added historical traditions established by various religious leaders and founders. You codified congregation structures, financial models, added liturgies, added dietary regulations, added special days of worship, added dress codes, even added prohibitions on both men and women I never required. Each of you has these LISTS! Stop trying to please me by living these man-made lists! They divide you because you measure yourselves against one another based on your respective man-made LISTS. Ask the Pharisee to list exactly what must be done to please me! Let him present his list! And suddenly you’ll see another Pharisee argue against something on the first Pharisee’s list, or seek to add something from their list to it!!! Eventually they are all squabbling over which commandments on which list has to be obeyed and which do not! Why? It is because the spirit of legalism leaves you awash in the sea of subjective personal interpretation wherein one man’s interpretation is just as good as another’s. Yet you cling to them because you think they make you “holy”. These lists don’t make you holy. What makes you Holy is… ME.
You see… I am the Vine, and you are the branches. You are called to be living extensions of me… not living extensions of the ancient nation of Israel, your given church, or your given denomination. You are called to be conformed into the image and likeness of Christ… not the image and likeness of your respective church, movement, or denomination. When you live by their LISTS… you are becoming like them… NOT like me.
And so you ask… How do I become like you? I, the LORD, shall answer you this day. Let him who has an ear, let him hear!!!...
The answer is in the very nature of my being my beloved. You see… I AM… love. When you are loving, gracious, forgiving, kind, compassionate, patient, long suffering, temperate, and giving… you are being like Me. Do you wish to fulfill “the law”??? DON’T live by it. Find its core. Find its essence. Find my reason for delivering said laws in their given contexts. You’ll discover that it is because I was teaching many different things… but the core was and always has been… MY love. Love me my child. Love me with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. And demonstrate your love for me by loving others as yourself. If you do this you will have fulfilled the essence of MY law. If there is any other commandment ever brought to your attention, know this… it is fulfilled in this single statement, “Love thy neighbor as thyself.” In this you do no wrong… and in loving… you become like me… the one who is love itself.
So be not swayed by their LISTS. Do not be deceived by their vain and eccentric verbiage. Do not emulate a nation, a denomination, or a church. Instead… emulate Me and you will find rest for your souls. Love Me with all your being… and show me that you love Me by loving others as yourself. The only commandment I give you is this… LOVE. For love will not murder, steal, covet, slander, commit adultery, rage, revenge, or blaspheme. Love will set every day aside as holy… because love seeks to give absolute devotion every single day without end. I am not impressed with your LISTS. First, your lists all differ. And second, you don’t even keep your own lists perfectly! This makes you hypocrites of the worst kind. Why do you do this to yourselves??? Do you really think I’m IMPRESSED by anything you do? Am I impressed by any cherry picked LIST of commandments you’ve chosen to embrace… at the expense of others that you chose not to? Do you really think I’m going to open the books and judge you by each of your respective lists???! Will I judge according to dress code, hairstyles, feast days, and your labored mispronunciations of an ancient language??? Will I praise you for acting Jewish… even though if the truth were to be told… you don’t have a single drop of Hebrew blood in your body??? No. When you stand before Me… I will only seek to know two things: Did you love me with all your being? Did you seek to show your love for me by loving others as yourself? And you’ll then begin to see how your LISTS hindered you from loving your neighbors. You will see how your lusts, adulteries, thievery, slander, etc. are not rooted in failing to obey a rule on a LIST… but in your failure to LOVE. For love does no harm to the object of its affection.
So I leave you with this… become like Me. Be conformed into the very image and likeness of Jesus Christ, my beloved Son. And in this you will find true holiness. In this you will find the law of liberty… the law of LOVE. You will have discovered… ME.
And what were Jesus' teachings in Matthew 5-7 directed at? The heart, and were simply teachings of how to love God and one another. They weren't so much legalistic dos and donts directed at outward behavior, as they were dealing with issues stemming straight from the heart. I believe this is exactly what Aquila is trying to say. Unless we act in love, all of our outward dos, and don'ts will only equal the Pharisees, and Jesus said that our righteousness must be greater than that of the Pharisees. Matt. 5:20
Whenever a believer in Messiah Jesus speaks or writes on His behalf, especially in the first person, as though the Lord was speaking through the person, they are, at the very least, implying that they are a prophet. And at the very most, they are outright proclaiming themselves to be such, for this is the best, most literal definition of a prophet: a mouthpiece or spokesperson for God.
And since the original poster has written to us in first person what he claims are the words of the Lord Jesus, then we must, WE MUST, apply the Spirit-inspired principles that govern what we, as Christ's Body, are supposed to do when a prophet or "prophet" speaks, which is this:
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
The prophet has permission to speak (or in this case write), but the contents of his or her message must be submitted to others for the purpose of judging what was said/written, to either authenticate or dismiss the message.
Aquila has done this much, and is to be commended for allowing others to judge what he claims is a "word from the Lord".
With all that being said, for whatever it is worth, I give my judgment...
After reading just the first few statements, I was convinced that what I was reading was not something the Lord would say. I quote:
Quote:
My child...each of you think that I authored your respective lists.
For this point forward, much was made against the idea of "lists".
I have to say it: God is the one that creates lists, especially lists of "do's and don'ts".
Note the following lists authored by God:
1.) The Decalogue, or Ten Commandments
Moses, under inspiration, even calls them the "Ten Commandments" (See Exodus 34:28, Deuteronomy 4:13, and 10:4).
This list was created, compiled, and commanded into existence by the LORD.
2.) The six things the LORD hates, with the seventh making for an abomination:
16. These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17. A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18. An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19. A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Here, another very obvious list is generated by our God. These items are enumerated and given in a specific order, the very definition of a list.
19. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20. Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21. Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
5.) What becomes of people who are given over to uncleanness by God and ought to be considered reprobates:
28. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29. Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30. Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31. Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32. Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Another Holy Spirit-inspired, God-derived "list".
These five items are but a mere demonstration of just how much our Savior is into "lists". I do not see how Yeshua, then, through the Spirit, would condemn us for generating lists, especially lists that separate and divide, and make an obvious distinction between what is and is not righteous.
For example, works of the flesh are "don'ts". Do we all agree?
So, from that point forward, since the opening statements, in my opinion, seem contrary to the revealed appreciation God has for making lists, I think we can conclude that the Lord would not have said what is claimed He said.
And if the opening statements then are, at the least, suspect, and at the most, outright contradictions, how much more of the contents can be trusted?
I have no personal vendetta against Aquila, nor wish to publicly argue and fight over whether "thus saith the Lord".
30. I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
As I read the original post, I judged. I for one believe my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will in this. I only want for God's will to be done in this matter.
Did the Lord speak to our brother?
All I can say is what he himself said:
Quote:
...it all came as a block of emotions to my spirit... not necessarily words...
Even the author admits to having to paraphrase and apply an interpretation to the "block of emotions" he received.
Perhaps the Lord was speaking, and did convey, through a "block of emotions" a message to Aquila. I will not say against it. But we have a right, even a duty to question the interpretational paraphrasing by which the "block of emotions" has been presented.
I submit then, that, even if the Lord was communicating, the message may have been mis-understood or not received properly.
More than that, I cannot say. But, since we are commanded by the Holy Scriptures to judge prophetic utterances, I have at least, done my part to give my judgment. In this case, it happens to be against what was shared.
Some have taken heart and received what Aquila wrote. I do not say you are wrong and I am right. But I do exhort all of us to sincerely compare everything that was written to the Word and consider what I've shared here thoroughly, before any possible, lasting damage is done.
Lord, correct your servant if I have come against you!
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For anyone devoted to His fear:
26. ...they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean...
God was upset with His priesthood for not doing this. It is the same God over both Covenants. God still cares about separation between what He considers holy/clean and what He considered profane/unclean.
23. And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
This is future tense, prophetic language, which is supposed to come to fruition during the era of Ezekiel's vision, i.e. the era of New Jerusalem, or the New Covenant church.
There is no way we can, as New Covenant priests unto God, fulfill our duties to Him if we do not, in some way, make moral distinctions between saved and lost, holy and unholy, Godly and ungodly.
There is only one way to do this: lists.
We may argue and mangle the lists sometimes, and I don't for a second think that any one human has got it all figured out perfectly. But nor do I for one second think that the Lord would have any umbrage with His people trying to their best to do exactly what He commands us to do, even though we at times fail.
6. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
However we take these verses, the fact remains that some have become accursed. God has anathematized them for preaching another Gospel.
The Gospel, by its very definition, must include an application, or else it cannot be obeyed. So any preaching of a so-called Gospel, that either mis-represents what the Gospel proper is, or does not give the Biblical application, by default, is "another Gospel". Those who preach such, even if they are an angel from heaven, or even if they do so ignorantly, are accursed.
Notice I said nothing about Acts 2:38. I didn't even mention 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 until just now. But the principle, whatever personal feelings and beliefs we have on the matter, is still true.
This means that another separation must be made, a "list" of who is and who is not preaching the accepted Gospel of Jesus Christ.
17. Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.
This verse has no application whatsoever if it is not obeyed literally to the letter. A "list" must be generated by the Church of the Living God of who is and who is not marked. These schismatics must be pointed out to the rest of Body.
This is a division that God Himself causes. Paul, by the Lord Jesus, commanded that the fornicator in Corinth be ex-communicated (1 Corinthians 5). This means the fornicator had to be publicly acknowledged as fallen and recognized for his sin in front of the whole assembly, humiliated, and cast out.
It is our sovereign duty to obey the Word of God in such matters. This isn't a matter of "religions", this is a matter of eternal salvation.
31. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32. And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33. And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
In the rest of the parable, the Lord gives us the criteria for determining who is a sheep and who is a goat. Why would the Lord do this unless He wants us to be able to tell the difference, i.e. judge and so separate, the one from the other?
We are warned of "false prophets", "false brethren", and even "false apostles". We have to be able to tell the difference between the real and the fake. The only way we can do this is by doing the very thing Aquila said the Lord said divides us.
Is it wrong that the "one faith" of Jesus Christ has become so fractured and damaged? Yes! It is wrong. Is it our fault that this is the case? Well, it's not His fault, is it?
But we can't just simply embrace everyone and everything that says it's of Christ, simply for the saying. We have to reject much that comes across our path. Remember the words of our Savior:
If any man say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or lo, there is Christ, believe him not!
We are commanded to reject out of hand many, many people, ideologies, doctrines, values, and beliefs. Ecumenicism is not from God.
So even though we often make a mess of things, and don't always do right, the fact that some are sincerely and genuinely trying their very best to be led by the Spirit to obey these cardinal teachings, even if it means division, is laudable to say the least.
There is a reason, after all, why Christ gave us gifts after He ascended to heaven. They are for the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry until we all come into the unity of the faith. The Lord knew (and knows) without these gifts, there is no true unity, which is to say, dis-unity is the starting point.
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For anyone devoted to His fear:
Aquila,
I accept your post in the spirit in which it is presented. Do I believe God was speaking to you? Yes. Does this mean you were able to interpret perfectly what He was communicating with you. NO. But what you present is very important, and is a very important word that believers need to hear, and to change how we process our view of God and of His purposes in the earth.
As you presented, believer's view of God, who is Love, is so distorted that spiritual growth is stunted, and the church cannot be "perfected" because we do not KNOW Him as He really is!!
If one believes God is hateful and will torture His creation endlessly unless they "get it just right" then that one is justified in his hatefulness. Just as Calvin and some of the early "church fathers" felt justified in burning some at the stake that they disagreed with. God is going to burn them anyway...
God is Love and man is the highest focus of His love, the whole of creation and the cosmos is for humanity!! God loves sinners, Jesus died for sinners, and in the end He will not leave any in their sin.
I know I sound like a broken record, but how on earth can one justify the hateful, and cruelty of religion's view of God, and believe that God who has all powerful, is defeated by man's "freewill" or his sin?
No matter how sinful one is, Jesus paid the price for every sin, and if the debt is paid, why is it still on the books???? Oh, the glorious gospel is truly Good News!!!
__________________ For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall give praise to God. (Romans 14:11- NASB)
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