Neither does your quote have any biblical basis in the NT either: "You also need a Man of God (a pastor) to show you. That's in the bible."[/QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord
In your original post, you equated a "man of God" to a pastor. This is where your premise is wrong. The eunuch on his way to Jerusalem was sent someone who was part of the 5-fold ministry - Philip who was an evangelist - and NOT a pastor. Peter went to Cornelius as an evangelist, and NOT a pastor.
The term you are using "man of God" does not equate "pastor" ANYWHERE in the NT. Prove it with scripture if it does.
Neither does your quote have any biblical basis in the NT either: "You also need a Man of God (a pastor) to show you. That's in the bible."
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord
I too am wondering where you are finding the type and shadow of the OT "man of God" that is specifically referenced in the NT as being a fulfillment of the NT ministry.
Nowhere in the OT do I see the prophet Isaiah, Jeremiah, or any of the rest of them, ruling over a group of people, taking their "tithe", and telling them how to live, and making sure they come to their church every Sunday. How is the OT prophet an extension of the NT ministry?
Simple answer - it's not. Jesus is our High Priest, and he is the Head of the body of Christ, the church. Those who minister in the body are not elevated above other parts of the body, but they are able to provide support, and help to encourage, strengthen, and help the body function together as a body. Nowhere in Paul's illustrations about the ministry do we see any man being given a role that would allow him to be a dictator over any part of the body of Christ.
Ministry is servanthood in the simplest way of explaining it. Study out the word minister, or ministry sincerely and be honest with yourself in the results you find.
What you have believed all along about the ministry has been taught to you by your "man of God' and it most likely has simply been a twist of scriptures to prop up their ministry and their kingdom building, and not the kingdom God.
I apologize I did not take the time to qualify what I was typing. I do believe in the 5 fold ministry as individual offices that Men of God have held and today are called.
I was only describing the ministry of the Pastor in my local assembly as God uses him at various times.
It is similar to your example of the APOSTLE Peter worked in the spirit of an evangelist with Cornelius. Though called as an Apostle was also anointed to work in this occasian as an Evangelist.
Phoenix: I hope this answers your questions.
nDavid: Elder R. Garrett is close enough to Phoenix. Have you been? He is truely a Man of God!
Sincerely,
J.A. Perez
__________________
Im just doing my best, untill I learn to do better. Thank God I'm not what I used to be!
Location: Phoenix, AZ.: Baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus in 1982.
Posts: 2,065
Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.A. Perez
Neither does your quote have any biblical basis in the NT either: "You also need a Man of God (a pastor) to show you. That's in the bible."
I apologize I did not take the time to qualify what I was typing. I do believe in the 5 fold ministry as individual offices that Men of God have held and today are called.
I was only describing the ministry of the Pastor in my local assembly as God uses him at various times.
It is similar to your example of the APOSTLE Peter worked in the spirit of an evangelist with Cornelius. Though called as an Apostle was also anointed to work in this occasian as an Evangelist.
Phoenix: I hope this answers your questions.
nDavid: Elder R. Garrett is close enough to Phoenix. Have you been? He is truely a Man of God!
Sincerely,
J.A. Perez[/QUOTE]
Beloved, Phillip was a "waiter of tables" (a deacon?), and not an evangelist, nor occupied even
in an office in the ministry. He had the testimony of being "...full of wisdom and the
Holy Spirit." Phillip KNEW the gospel. He did such an excellent job, he was later named an
evangelist. Again: evangelizing does not constitute an evangelist; nevertheless, the evangelist
should be adept at evangelizing!
Peter, on the other hand, fulfilled his calling to the Gentiles as an apostle: the first to enter
into the foray. He also had the wisdom to take "...certain brethren with him."
The pastors and teachers are called "...for the edifying of the body of Christ." Each in their
capacity and in their particular gifts, as they have been called.
I am not trying to debate as if everyone here is wrong and I am right. I haven’t had time to respond to the your statements individually. I bolded them and will answer to the best of my ability.
God has always given me a pastor after his heart. Sincere men that have done their best. They have not all been perfect but have all been fair. I am sorry that you have not been given that from God. I on the other hand am a blessed man, God has been good to me. My pastor bailed me out of jail, let me live with him and his dear old wife, preached Calvary to me, preached me into the altar, Baptized me in Jesus name, prayed that God would and did fill me with the Holy Ghost, helped me get enrolled back in school, got me an apartment next to the church, taught me personal bible study on church off nights, gave me money for food, paid my rent, was a shoulder to cry on, later, Baptized my brother, baptized my wife and prayer her thru to the Holy Ghost, helped me pay my mortgage, gave me money to buy diapers, dedicated my kids, prayed my kids thru to the Holy Ghost, Baptized them, counseled my marriage, corrected me when I was wrong, shown me a way that is called straight, Preached the Devil off my back and heavens blessing down, walked the floor night after night until my heard head would receive correction, taught me to abstain from evil taught me the why's of living righteous and to not love the world, and most of all he has preached the Gospel to me and my family. Tithing is well earned and so minor in the light of all he has done. I hope one day he buys the finest truck money could buy and the finest house on the market. He deserves it, he has also done the same for countless others in our local assembly. This story of mine started 19yrs ago.
Brother Perez, I honor your commitment to your Pastor and your recognition of someone helping you in your troubles. I just want you to realize this is ALWAYS and ONLY about JESUS and that is all you owe you allegiance to. You pastors' job is to fix you and point you to his Lord as your source. You dont owe your pastor anything, but you owe JESUS everything. You are in Gods' kingdom now. (your pastor should agree with what I am saying here)
I am for the Pastor!
There is no higher authority in the local church than he. Dont forget Jesus!!!
J.A.Perez
They should be working on the saint through the spiritual maturity process, expecting NOTHING in return.
We should be that way with our kids also....
2 Cor 12:14 Behold, the third time I am ready to come to you; and I will not be burdensome to you: for I seek not yours(your things you own), but you(your well being) for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children.
Location: Phoenix, AZ.: Baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus in 1982.
Posts: 2,065
Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.A. Perez
Neither does your quote have any biblical basis in the NT either: "You also need a Man of God (a pastor) to show you. That's in the bible."
50/50 (almost) correct. Man of God does not equal THE pastor: it speaks of the ONE ministry
the Lord has placed in the Church. The ministry IS NOT the "head" of the Church; rather, it
is the Lord Jesus. The one-man rule in the Church is not Biblical.
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