Love One Another and the Cross

[mfblume]

Shazeep, please please consider this as well, that you are overlooking something. Maybe ritualized Acts 2:38'ers turned you off. Not sure. But there is no salvation by works, which is the case if "love one another " does not follow salvation but instead causes it. There is simply no salvation by works, no matter how much you love. Just because some have ritualized Acts 2:38 does not mean it is not the beginning in the real sense it's meant to be. Just because people say it's the plan of salvation, doesn't mean they ritualize it. But again there is no way that salvation by works is possible and no one can be saved outside the work of the cross.

Acts 2:38 is the way to apply the cross to our lives, but not ritualistically. Ritualism does nothing. So when someone says Acts 2:38's the plan, it does not mean they are bypassing the application of the cross in a genuine heart experience of faith and real, living self-denial.

You simply don't seem to give a person the chance to talk about it, since you seemingly cut someone off as soon as they say things like muslims are lost,. But if the cross is the only means to God, as Jesus and the apostles said it was, then there is no salvation aside from the cross, and that is not a judgment call either. It's stating facts without prejudice.

Acts 2:38 takes the death of Christ, only when a true heart of faith gets the concept of the need for salvation, and baptizes someone into that death. And when they come to God as one who is alive from the dead, as Ro 6:13 states we should, God sees the genuine faith in a person who obviously knows they died in Christ, freeing them from the old man, fully believing that self could do nothing more than die, due to our depravity in sin. And that faith that we died is also aware that we arose with Christ. And when God sees that faith, He moves upon the person and empowers them supernaturally. I've experienced it.


But again, love one another, without the cross first, is salvation by works. And I hope you realize salvaiton by works is impossible.

[shazeep]

yes, salvation by works is not possible. that is doing something to get something, it doesn't work like that. But that does not mean that you will not be known by your fruit

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

yes, salvation by works is not possible. that is doing something to get something, it doesn't work like that. But that does not mean that you will not be known by your fruit

I agree totally. But love one another without the cross will not save us. Salvation without works is saying we cannot love one another to be saved apart from the cross.

[KeptByTheWord]

Good discussion here. Just wanted to say that Paul talks about love in 1 Cor. 13... and it seems that you can do a lot of things that may seem to be "good" (give your body to be burned etc.) but if one does not have love that comes through the spirit of Christ, it is all for nothing!

How do we get that kind of love? It comes only through the cross, the blood, Calvary, Acts 2:38 if you will. Acts 2:38 is indeed the door, the entrance... but true love can never come forth in our hearts without first walking through that entrance, and allowing the spirit of Christ through His blood be applied in our lives.

First the cross, and then His love abiding in us. No other way.

Without the cross and the power of Pentecost, the disciples were powerless to do what Christ was asking them to do. They tried and failed. Peter failed miserably, denying Christ in his darkest hour of need. But... after the cross, and after Pentecost, all that changed.

First the cross... and then the love of Christ working through us... that is the key.

[mfblume]

True acts 2:38 experience is the opening.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

I agree totally. But love one another without the cross will not save us. Salvation without works is saying we cannot love one another to be saved apart from the cross.

you are seeking a test for salvation, that essentially includes agreeing with the words that you are saying, perhaps, when it is doers of the word that are championed. So there is a sense in which you can run from works, but you can't hide.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

you are seeking a test for salvation, that essentially includes agreeing with the words that you are saying, perhaps, when it is doers of the word that are championed. So there is a sense in which you can run from works, but you can't hide.

I'm seeking nothing but repeating what the Bible says. Jesus and the Apostles made the stipulations. Not me. Jesus said except we eat his flesh and drink his blood we have no eternal life . He explained that meant believing his words. And the flesh and blood aspect points to words of the crucifixion.


You can't get away from it. The cross alone saves. And that requires inclusion into the death of Jesus which Romans 6 says is baptism.

[shazeep]

i would not disagree, but that obviously does not mean that you have found the perfect expression for these concepts, like you think you have. Many will cry "Lord, Lord," or iow nod their heads in unison with you, and yet never find salvation. And many will disagree with you, and yet find it. It is a spiritual principle that must be lived, not a religious fact to be memorized. Saying that you believe Christ died for your sins will not get you into heaven, and refusing to say it does not condemn you. This is also a Scriptural principle, outlined in many passages.

God judges one's heart, and when you agree with some parts of Scripture, even verbally, often, and loudly, while denying the parts you don't like, it shows in the cracks in your theology, in a bunch of ways, Pride foremost. And it can be pretty much all downhill from there.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i would not disagree, but that obviously does not mean that you have found the perfect expression for these concepts, like you think you have. Many will cry "Lord, Lord," or iow nod their heads in unison with you, and yet never find salvation.

There will always be people like that. But it remains that when a person genuinely carries their cross and denies oneself, they are building on the rock.

It seems you have an aversion to thinking we can't know exactly how to be saved, while the bile plainly says we can. If you think we cannot really know, the bible certainly does not give that impression.

1 Jhn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

And many will disagree with you, and yet find it. It is a spiritual principle that must be lived, not a religious fact to be memorized.

That is a given, Shazeep. Everyone here knows that.

Saying that you believe Christ died for your sins will not get you into heaven, and refusing to say it does not condemn you. This is also a Scriptural principle, outlined in many passages.

It is not a matter of saying it. It is a matter of the heart, and if we genuinely believe He died as us and that is the the only way to heaven, and we distinctly experience a touch of God after He sees that faith in our lives when we're baptized into that death.

God judges one's heart, and when you agree with some parts of Scripture, even verbally, often, and loudly, while denying the parts you don't like, it shows in the cracks in your theology, in a bunch of ways, Pride foremost. And it can be pretty much all downhill from there.

Of course. Again, you're preaching to the choir. That is basic Bible understanding 101.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by mfblume

after He sees that faith in our lives when we're baptized into that death.



Of course. Again, you're preaching to the choir. That is basic Bible understanding 101.

understanding it will not save you; and your speech in other areas belies your understanding, wadr. You believe that Acts 2:38 is the doctrine, and argue against Scripture that plainly tells you "Love one another" is. Not that this won't change someday, as surely it will.