One Last Revival?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by mfblume

YES!!!!

[shazeep]

i see a trap there. everyone imagines being in the right, and having made the right choice, chosen the right religion, said the right words at baptism, and envisions themselves as one of those few, and pretty much everyone else as damned. This is as spurious as our group hallucination about the afterlife imo, which does not account for heaven coming to earth.

few may find it, and i have always understood that the same way you prolly do, but when you consider the description of the Church there, w/o spot or blemish, it provides an image for comparison to the present state of the Church, and thus suggests where we are in the timeline. Christ is not coming back for an unprepared bride, but a prepared one. God is love; also, what God wills comes to pass. And it is God's will that all 'might' come to repentance. another way to put that is 'possibly.'

so restated, this verse could be telling you that everyone might get saved in the end, as far as you know; as much as this might conflict with our individual little ego trips, or our collective ones; or our sense of justice. Grace is sufficient precisely because it is a miracle, to our perspective, and i wont pretend to understand how the eschatology works out, but i suggest that when you hold the same general beliefs as the herd it is time to pause and reflect here. God probably has a better idea.

[Esaias]

Yeah, let's just make it up as we go along, we can be the Authority upon which we base our lives and our understanding, no need to actually think the Bible says what it says and means what it means and that anyone willing to fear God and obey him can understand clearly what's going on and what God requires of him/her. No, that's just too old fashioned, it's not hipster enough.

'Everyone might be saved in the end'? Where'd that come from? Oh, right, from the book of the Prophet Feelgood, chapter 1, verse 2.

[Dante]

You assume God's grace to be irresistible, and that countless numbers of people are magically going to convert to the faith against their will at the hands of the Holy Spirit.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Yeah, let's just make it up as we go along, we can be the Authority upon which we base our lives and our understanding, no need to actually think the Bible says what it says and means what it means and that anyone willing to fear God and obey him can understand clearly what's going on and what God requires of him/her. No, that's just too old fashioned, it's not hipster enough.

'Everyone might be saved in the end'? Where'd that come from? Oh, right, from the book of the Prophet Feelgood, chapter 1, verse 2.

i didnt say that i believed that, but that it might be translated that way. I don't think you can escape God, Esaias, and you know it. I just doubt that any of the rituals you might consider essential actually have anything to do with the Kingdom, wherein lies the rub if you have an opinion on that interpretation that isn't dismissive, seeing as how "might" and "possibly" are so entwined, then b.a.m. share it

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Dante

You assume God's grace to be irresistible, and that countless numbers of people are magically going to convert to the faith against their will at the hands of the Holy Spirit.

Esaias or I?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by shazeep

i didnt say that i believed that, but that it might be translated that way.

What might be translated 'that way'? Do you read and translate Greek? Universalism is nowhere taught in Scripture, and is directly contradicted by about 99 million verses.

I don't think you can escape God, Esaias, and you know it.

YOU don't think *I* can 'escape God'? You're right, none of us can - including you. And we will all be judged by the WORD.

I just doubt that any of the rituals you might consider essential actually have anything to do with the Kingdom, wherein lies the rub

No rub, just you doubt certain parts of Scripture mean what they say. 'He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved'. That's what Jesus said, but you 'doubt' that has anything to do with the kingdom. Sorry, but I and most people here put more stock in what Jesus said than in your 'doubts'.

if you have an opinion on that interpretation that isn't dismissive, seeing as how "might" and "possibly" are so entwined, then b.a.m. share it

What interpretation? You seem to make stuff up as you go along, and the only thing I have seen from you in any consistent manner is your persistence in believing Christians are lost and Muslims are saved. Which tells me you aren't getting any of your ideas from the Bible, or from any attempt to 'follow Jesus', but instead you just don't like Christians, America, or Americans in general, so NOTHING they say has any impact on you unless it agrees with your 'Christians are bad, Americans are bad, everyone else is gooooooood' meme.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by Esaias

What might be translated 'that way'? Do you read and translate Greek? Universalism is nowhere taught in Scripture, and is directly contradicted by about 99 million verses.

yes, but an equal number seem to suggest it. A lexicon led me to the differing interpretations for the word in question, and even substituting "possibly" does not exactly indicate Universality.

Originally Posted by Esaias

YOU don't think *I* can 'escape God'? You're right, none of us can - including you. And we will all be judged by the WORD.

"one," then, sorry.

Originally Posted by Esaias

No rub, just you doubt certain parts of Scripture mean what they say. 'He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved'. That's what Jesus said, but you 'doubt' that has anything to do with the kingdom. Sorry, but I and most people here put more stock in what Jesus said than in your 'doubts'.

no, i don't doubt that has anything to do with the kingdom, Esaias, and i note that it is quotes from Christ that seem to be giving you guys the most trouble. So nice try, but i didn't notice you chiming in when i quoted Christ at Mike and he was twisting in the wind; where were you then?

Originally Posted by Esaias

What interpretation? You seem to make stuff up as you go along, and the only thing I have seen from you in any consistent manner is your persistence in believing Christians are lost and Muslims are saved. Which tells me you aren't getting any of your ideas from the Bible, or from any attempt to 'follow Jesus', but instead you just don't like Christians, America, or Americans in general, so NOTHING they say has any impact on you unless it agrees with your 'Christians are bad, Americans are bad, everyone else is gooooooood' meme.

you cannot quote me saying any of that, however, so this amounts to an exposition of your misunderstanding wadr.