Were the Apostles baptized in Jesus Name? - Page 2

Esaias · #11 03-12-2018, 05:09 PM

Isn't John 4:1-2 a direct reference to events described in John 3:22-26? If so, it means Jesus was not Himself personally baptizing in ch 3, would it not?

Chapter 4
1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

Esaias · #12 03-12-2018, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

Isn't John 4:1-2 a direct reference to events described in John 3:22-26? If so, it means Jesus was not Himself personally baptizing in ch 3, would it not?

Chapter 4
1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,

2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

In v 2, is "his disciples" the object of "baptized"? Or is it a subject in the second phrase (making it an ellipsis meaning " but His disciples {did baptize})?

Esaias · #13 03-12-2018, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias

In v 2, is "his disciples" the object of "baptized"? Or is it a subject in the second phrase (making it an ellipsis meaning " but His disciples {did baptize})?

The word "but" in v 2 is "alla" and means otherwise or contrariwise. This indicates the verse is saying Jesus did not baptize, however (contrariwise, or nevertheless, or otherwise, or howbeit) his disciple (did baptize). The word could be translated "except", but that then creates a problem. The text doesn't have an object for Jesus baptizing " except" xyz.

In other words, we would expect it to say But Jesus did not baptize ANY/ANYONE/PEOPLE except his disciples".

And if that were what was either written, or implied, it becomes a tautology: Jesus did not baptize anyone except His disciples", yet anyone baptised would be counted as a disciple. There is no possibility of baptizing someone and them not being counted a disciple. Disciples aren't a subgroup of those baptized, they are coextensive with all those baptized. See verse 1 which makes that point more clear).

robogreg_2000 · #14 03-13-2018, 08:36 AM

I am asking is whether the Apostle Peter and the rest of the apostles were baptized in the formula ΅ the name of the Lord Jesus Christ¨. And if so by whom?

Aquila · #15 03-13-2018, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Commas were added later to the document. The previous witness of the writer of John, and the religious Judean leadership has Jesus baptizing His apostles.

Jesus is baptized by John, Jesus then baptizes His 12, and they in turn baptize others.

I'm not finding this interpretation in any Bible translation I've looked into. Here are just a handful of the translations I've looked at that I regard as being the most accurate.

John 4:1-2 (ESV)
Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John 2 (although Jesus himself did not baptize, but only his disciples),

John 4:1-2 (NRSV)
Now when Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard, “Jesus is making and baptizing more disciples than John” 2 —although it was not Jesus himself but his disciples who baptized—

John 4:1-2 (Young's Literal Translation)
When therefore the Lord knew that the Pharisees heard that Jesus more disciples doth make and baptize than John,
2 (though indeed Jesus himself was not baptizing, but his disciples,)

This Jewish translation is interesting...

Yochanan 4:1-2 (Orthodox Jewish Bible)
4 Therefore when Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach knew that the Perushim heard that he makes more talmidim and administers the tevilah of teshuva to more talmidim than Yochanan,
2 Although Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach himself did not personally administer the mikveh mayim’s tevilah—this was administered by his talmidim,

I think you're wrong on this one EB.

FlamingZword · #16 03-14-2018, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robogreg_2000

I am asking is whether the Apostle Peter and the rest of the apostles were baptized in the formula ΅ the name of the Lord Jesus Christ¨. And if so by whom?

The Apostle Paul was baptized in the name of Jesus, it is written in the Book of Acts. Paul was the apostle to the gentiles so if you are not a jew then you just have to accept the baptism of Paul as enough.

The other apostles ministered to the Jewish converts so their baptism is totally irrelevant to us gentiles.

votivesoul · #17 03-15-2018, 03:04 AM

Wherefore baptism doth now also save us...

The baptism Simon indicated had saved his audience, also saved him.

One Lord, one faith, one baptism...

Hard to believe Simon experienced a seperate New Covenant baptism than his audience, so as to make for two immersions.

Had Paul been immersed some other way than in the name of the Lord Jesus, would James, John, and Simon have offered him the right hand of fellowship, or would they have led him to a pool and explained his error and performed the baptism correctly?

Esaias · #18 03-15-2018, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul

Wherefore baptism doth now also save us...

The baptism Simon indicated had saved his audience, also saved him.

One Lord, one faith, one baptism...

Hard to believe Simon experienced a seperate New Covenant baptism than his audience, so as to make for two immersions.

Had Paul been immersed some other way than in the name of the Lord Jesus, would James, John, and Simon have offered him the right hand of fellowship, or would they have led him to a pool and explained his error and performed the baptism correctly?

1ofthechosen · #19 03-16-2018, 02:35 PM

You have asked a question you know there is no for sure answer to.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCml...GfzdAfhWLzbz1A
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FlamingZword · #20 03-17-2018, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

You have asked a question you know there is no for sure answer to.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCml...GfzdAfhWLzbz1A
This is a One God, Holy Ghost Filled, Tongue Talkin', Jesus Name channel where it's all in Him!
Apostolic Truth! His Truth Is Marching On!
SUBSCRIBE to my channel!!

Yes there is a sure answer.
It is given by Peter himself.
I Peter 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us"

as you can see, he included himself as being one of the baptized.

Peter commanded others many times to be baptized in the name of the Lord, how else would he had been baptized himself?